Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello folks,

Here's my situation...

I purchased my 2014 Focus Titanium (5-door), in August of 2013. That first winter, during one especially slushy Michigan day, I was driving on I-75 when the Service Engine light came on and the engine stalled, for no apparent reason. I pulled to the shoulder of the highway and tried to restart to the car, with no luck. I had the car towed to Skalnek Ford in Lake Orion, MI, where I purchased the car from. Unfortunately, if wasn't during business hours, so I had to leave the car and drop my keys in the drop box, along with a description of the problem.

By the time the Service Dept. looked at the car, it started right up and ran fine. They said that they weren't able to detect a problem. Noting that the engine light had come on, I asked if they had scanned for trouble codes. I was shocked at the response I got. Yes, they admitted, there was a code, but the tech had cleared it and didn't write it down!!!

When I picked up the car, I insisted that the Service Manager put all of that in writing, which he did.

Fast forward to last month...

I was driving home from work (again on I-75), during a heavy rain storm. I hit a huge puddle at about 70 MPH, causing the car to hydroplane a bit. Immediately, the Service Engine light came on and the car started running like crap. I barely made it to the shoulder before the engine stalled. I tried for several minutes, but it would not start up. I popped the hood and got out, to check and see if the engine compartment was wet. Surprisingly, the engine appeared dry (at least what is visible from the top). Several minutes later, I tried to start the car again and this time it fired up. It was running very rough, but I was able to get off the highway and make it to a gas station. Before I called a tow truck, I decided to let the car sit for a bit, engine off, and see if the problem went away, as it had the first time this happened. Low and behold, after a 10 minute rest, the engine fired up and purred like a kitten - I made it home from work.

The next day at work, I borrowed a scan tool from a coworker. The following codes were present: P0122 & P06A8. The first one appears to be related to the TPS, the second one I couldn't find much information on. Since the car was now running fine, I didn't bother taking in to the shop.

Well, wouldn't you know it, this past Tuesday, Mother Nature dumped a bunch of wet, slushy, snow on us here in Michigan. Driving to work that morning, my Service Engine light came on, again. This time I was on I-696 and almost to work, when the engine died. Knowing the routine by now, I coasted to the shoulder and waited it out. This time, it took 15 minutes before the engine would start, but it ran great when it did. Once at work, I borrowed a scan tool, again, and got the same two codes: P0122 & P0608.

So, I scheduled a service appointment at Skalnek Ford and went to drop it off, this afternoon. I explained the history to the gentleman behind the counter and he explained that I will have to pay a $92 diagnostic fee (for the first hour) and any additional cost of repairs. You see, my car is pushing 45K miles now, and the bumper to bumper warranty has expired. Silly me, thinking that an engine that stalls in the rain would be covered under the 60K mile powertrain warranty. I asked, if he could waive the fee, since the problem has been happening since long before the warranty expired (the car was only a few months old the first time). He said he has to go by the company policy. I grabbed my keys and left.

So firstly, can anyone offer me advice on who I can contact to get my car fixed on Ford's dime? I feel like I got the shaft here and if there is no recourse.

Secondly, if I'm on my own, can someone offer advice on what the problem might be? The obvious thing would be to replace the throttle position sensor, since that is the code that keeps popping up. I just find it odd that it only acts up in severe wet weather and wonder if that is really the problem.

Thanks for reading all of this and letting me rant a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,380 Posts
I would not lean towards a TPS fault or replacement. The TPS is not getting wet, but some of the TPS wiring and connections might be. Also the TPS system might be a victim, not the criminal.

I am tempted, but I am not going to try and guess at the problem, I will let others with better MK3 knowledge and experience than me.

Ford Service has reps here that read these threads. One of them will likely reply in the next day or so and lend a hand. I agree, Ford should reach beyond the policies at times like this. Hang in there, help is on the way.
 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
Moved this to the MkIII section for better visibility.

Diagnostic on your nickel would be a Dealership policy, not specifically Ford one. A little odd since you bought it & had prev. issue serviced there, but not TOO strange as I see many mentions of Dealers charging diagnostic even on obvious warranty work when they shouldn't.

My vote lies with wiring as well, there's one tsb on under hood wiring I can think of offhand with recent comments in this section.


Meagan, the Ford Rep. who assists here in making contacts with the right Ford people to help out MAY be able to help. One prev. instance long ago that may or may not be related could make it difficult, but there's always hope. (loosing that code hurts, even with a record of that)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Sailor, I figured that deleted trouble code could come back to haunt me. That's why I insisted that the Service Manager document it. At least the original work order has the same exact symptoms listed on it as the current problem. Also, it was a barely more than a year ago that the car first was serviced - I live far from my job and rack up the highway miles.

At the very least, I'm hoping someone can help me diagnose the problem and fix it myself.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
990 Posts
Odd same thing happens to me. It's not very often, but it happened today and earlier this week when it was raining.

Check engine light came on. I pulled over and checked everything. After a while the light went off and no other issues. Runs like a champ!

Mine has been doing this for over a year now, but it's so intermittent and the light never stays on for more than a few minutes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,887 Posts
Hello folks,

Here's my situation...

I purchased my 2014 Focus Titanium (5-door), in August of 2013. That first winter, during one especially slushy Michigan day, I was driving on I-75 when the Service Engine light came on and the engine stalled, for no apparent reason. I pulled to the shoulder of the highway and tried to restart to the car, with no luck. I had the car towed to Skalnek Ford in Lake Orion, MI, where I purchased the car from...

By the time the Service Dept. looked at the car, it started right up and ran fine. They said that they weren't able to detect a problem...

Fast forward to last month...

I was driving home from work (again on I-75), during a heavy rain storm. I hit a huge puddle at about 70 MPH, causing the car to hydroplane a bit. Immediately, the Service Engine light came on and the car started running like crap. I barely made it to the shoulder before the engine stalled. I tried for several minutes, but it would not start up...Several minutes later, I tried to start the car again and this time it fired up. It was running very rough...Before I called a tow truck, I decided to let the car sit for a bit, engine off, and see if the problem went away, as it had the first time this happened. Low and behold, after a 10 minute rest, the engine fired up and purred like a kitten...
...Since the car was now running fine, I didn't bother taking in to the shop.

Well, wouldn't you know it, this past Tuesday, Mother Nature dumped a bunch of wet, slushy, snow on us here in Michigan. Driving to work that morning, my Service Engine light came on, again...the engine died. Knowing the routine by now, I coasted to the shoulder and waited it out. This time, it took 15 minutes before the engine would start, but it ran great when it did. Once at work, I borrowed a scan tool, again, and got the same two codes: P0122 & P0608.

So, I scheduled a service appointment at Skalnek Ford and went to drop it off, this afternoon. I explained the history to the gentleman behind the counter and he explained that I will have to pay a $92 diagnostic fee (for the first hour) and any additional cost of repairs. You see, my car is pushing 45K miles now...I asked, if he could waive the fee, since the problem has been happening since long before the warranty expired (the car was only a few months old the first time). He said he has to go by the company policy. I grabbed my keys and left...
Hi girvin02,

I'm happy to look into this further. Please send me a private message with your VIN, best daytime phone number, and full name.

...Ford Service has reps here that read these threads. One of them will likely reply in the next day or so and lend a hand... Hang in there, help is on the way.
...Meagan, the Ford Rep. who assists here in making contacts with the right Ford people to help out MAY be able to help...
Thanks guys!

Odd same thing happens to me. It's not very often, but it happened today and earlier this week when it was raining.

Check engine light came on. I pulled over and checked everything. After a while the light went off and no other issues. Runs like a champ!

Mine has been doing this for over a year now, but it's so intermittent and the light never stays on for more than a few minutes.
If you decide to head to your dealer to have this diagnosed, please let me know. :)

Meagan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Update

Well, it turns out that the problem is exactly related to the TSB that BetaDnB posted a link too. Today, on my way home from work, I stopped to get gas. While pumping gas, I popped the hood and took a look at the wiring harness in question. Sure enough, it was damaged from rubbing against the intake manifold.

I snapped a few pictures - this shows the problem pretty clearly.





Unfortunately, me jostling with the harness wasn't a good idea, being 30 miles from home. When I finished pumping my gas and started the car back up, the "Engine fault Service now" message appeared and the engine was running very rough. After shutting the engine off, wiggling the wiring harness and just plain letting the car sit for 10-15 minutes (on several occasions), the car still would not run properly.

I just happened to have a PM from Meagan printed out, in my car, so decided to try to contact her at the 800-392-FORD phone number in her signature. I got through to a different Ford Rep and gave her the case # that Meagan had provided to me. All that she could tell me was Mary was handling my case and there was a note in the computer that said, "Repair possibly covered under extended warranty, diagnostics fee not waivable." I asked here what "possibly covered by extended warranty" meant. I also explained that I know what the problem is and didn't think I should have to pay a $92 diagnostics fee. She said that she couldn't help me and I would have to take that up with Mary. I asked how I can talk to Mary and she said that Mary had called me earlier today and left a message on my phone. I explained that I had my cell phone on me all day and had received no such call. I asked her what phone number she called and was given the wrong number. I gave Meagan my phone number in a PM - that is not the number they had as my contact (not even close). She then explained that Mary would attempt to call me again ON MONDAY! I explained that I was sitting on the side of the road and needed my car towed someplace, today, and didn't want to have it towed back to the Ford Dealership if it wasn't covered under warranty. She said that the best she could do was transfer me to Mary's desk, but warned that I might get an answering machine. I said that was fine. I then sat on hold for what seemed like 10 minutes. The original lady then came back on and admitted that she screwed up and had put me on hold without transferring the call and would transfer it now! Next, a different lady answered the phone. I didn't catch her name, as she didn't want to talk to me - she explained that she only answered the phone because she thought I was her boss. I pleaded with her to not hang up on me, explaining that I had been on this call for near a half hour. She just said "Sorry" and put me in contact with a Ford customer satisfaction survey!!! After hitting the 1 button several times (1 = poor, 5 = good), I was disconnected.

Running out of options, I called Skalnek Ford and spoke to Gary, who was completely unaware of my situation and had not heard from Mary or any other Ford Rep about my case. I explained the long story of my woes and he explained that he couldn't make me any promises as to waiving fees and such. So I explained the TSB and told him that I know exactly what the problem is (going into great detail). He said that worst case scenario, I was looking at $220-$300 for the repair.

At this point, I refuse to pay any money to a Ford Dealership, let alone the one that couldn't diagnose the problem a year ago, when it would have been covered under warranty. So I used my Iphone to find a Auto Repair Shop that was close by and limped the car into their lot. I had to drive with my hazard lights on, as my engine wouldn't rev over about 2,000 RPM and I couldn't get much past 40 MPH, but I made it. I explained my story to the shop supervisor who quickly looked the appropriate TSB up on his computer. He said the repair should take 1.5 - 2 hours @ $80/hr - so I'm looking at $120-$160, and it comes with a 2 year warranty.

This will likely be my last post here. All I can say is Ford has failed me at every step of this ordeal. I will most likely never purchase another Ford car/truck or take a car in for service at a Ford dealership.

Thanks for listening.
 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
Intermittent electrical problem is unfortunately impossible to diagnose when it isn't happening. The tsb mentioning that possible issue didn't come out until late '14, much too late to help when you first had an issue.

Your understandable reluctance to pay a diagnostic fee (which should have been waived by the Dealer IMHO if they found the tsb issue & Ford covered the repair) resulted in the car not being "in the system" with a warranty repair request by the Dealer.

Since a Dealer hadn't looked at it, there was nothing further that a "Service Rep." from Ford could do to help. Their assistance is limited to approval of warranty coverage for items not automatically covered by the computerized authorization system.

No way to tell at this point what repair & coverage would have been done. It's possible that a replacement harness & upgraded protection as needed would have been the covered repair. It's also possible that the repair could have been minor wire harness repair, with either you or Ford covering the bill. The "worst case" you were quoted seems to imply harness replacement & the possibility of it not being covered, all the Dealer could guarantee over the phone without seeing it.


It's a crap shoot once out of warranty (looks like you drive a LOT).

IMHO there's a VERY good chance the repair would have been covered if you had the Dealer do the work when the problem presented itself again. Between JUST being out of warranty, a prev. issue that was possibly (probably) from the same cause, and the tsb noting your exact issue as a possibility, I'd be quite surprised if they DIDN'T cover it. Between a Dealer "on your side" telling Ford about the prev. issue & the current match to the tsb, and the assistance from Meagan bringing the problem to the attention of the regional Service Rep., both possible "angles" to ask for that consideration were well covered.

We'll never know what the outcome could have been, NOT wanting to use a Dealer for repair guaranteed that you would be footing the bill.


Sorry to hear you got caught by this issue at a time when resolution wasn't simple.

Glad the forum could help out with the likely problem.
 

·
Rubber Side Down
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
I honestly should've had this looked at yesterday when I had my car in getting a fog light harness and trunk release switch replaced. I have to get under the hood anyway so I'll probably just take care of it myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Final Update

I finally got a phone call from the elusive Mary (Customer Service Manager). She said that there was nothing she could do for me, since my car isn't at a Ford dealership for repair. I told her that my car has not been repaired yet and I was willing to have it towed to a dealership if she could assure me that I wouldn't have to pay for the repairs. She said that I would have to pay the diagnostics fee ($92) and that was a company policy & non negotiable. I explained that I can show the dealership the damaged wires, and provide them with the TSB, thus eliminating the need to "trouble shoot". She said that she was not discounting my mechanical aptitude, but the certified mechanics must perform their own diagnostics.

The car is already at a shop. It would cost me more to have it towed to a dealership and pay their ridiculous diagnostics fee. So I will just let the current shop fix the problem.

Sailor, you mentioned that for $220-$300, the dealership would probably replace the whole wiring harness. I asked the Service Manager that very question, yesterday, and was surprised to hear that they would simply splice in new wire. That cost seems extremely excessive. Then again, so does $92 for "diagnostics".

Thanks again to all that helped. Have a nice day.
 

·
__________/\__
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
I finally got a phone call from the elusive Mary (Customer Service Manager). She said that there was nothing she could do for me, since my car isn't at a Ford dealership for repair. I told her that my car has not been repaired yet and I was willing to have it towed to a dealership if she could assure me that I wouldn't have to pay for the repairs. She said that I would have to pay the diagnostics fee ($92) and that was a company policy & non negotiable. I explained that I can show the dealership the damaged wires, and provide them with the TSB, thus eliminating the need to "trouble shoot". She said that she was not discounting my mechanical aptitude, but the certified mechanics must perform their own diagnostics.

The car is already at a shop. It would cost me more to have it towed to a dealership and pay their ridiculous diagnostics fee. So I will just let the current shop fix the problem.

Sailor, you mentioned that for $220-$300, the dealership would probably replace the whole wiring harness. I asked the Service Manager that very question, yesterday, and was surprised to hear that they would simply splice in new wire. That cost seems extremely excessive. Then again, so does $92 for "diagnostics".

Thanks again to all that helped. Have a nice day.
I recommend letting Ford repair this. The wiring harness must be spliced with wires of the correct length and soldered. If an independent shop improperly repairs this, you may be faced with more problems and Ford may point the finger at the other shop.

BTW, splicing of the harness is the correct method of repairing this as called out in the TSB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
It seems silly to me that even if you know what the exact problem is, and how it needs to be corrected, you still have to pay a $92 diagnostic fee. Sounds like a gimmick just to take more of you're money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,887 Posts
...

I just happened to have a PM from Meagan printed out, in my car, so decided to try to contact her at the 800-392-FORD phone number in her signature...
Hi girvin02,

As a Social Media Specialist, I do not have a direct line and am unable to make or receive calls. The number in my signature is to our Customer Relationship Center. I see you were in contact with your CSM today.

Meagan
 

·
#dailydriven
Joined
·
6,103 Posts
i may have missed it but how many miles do you have. you said you have a '14, how is this not covered under the factory warranty?
 

·
__________/\__
Joined
·
2,135 Posts
i may have missed it but how many miles do you have. you said you have a '14, how is this not covered under the factory warranty?
He stated he is pushing 45,000 miles. His bumper to bumper warranty expired at 36,000 miles and the 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty likely does not cover this. I would say that if the rough idle/running created by this factory defect impacts emissions, it may very well be covered by the 8 year/80,000 mile emissions warranty.

8 year 80,000 mile Emissions Warranty:
 

Attachments

·
#dailydriven
Joined
·
6,103 Posts
okay, so obviously this issue is not covered under the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty then. This whole thing seems a bit rediculous on Ford's part. it is clearly a fault in their design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,380 Posts
I posted in this thread on the first day. Just came back to see what happened. Quite upsetting to see how it unfolded. Ford and other large companies with Social Media Reps and CSM's and Dealerships need to have an ability to go outside of standard policies when situations like this arise. "The System" failed or is not designed properly.

Once armed with the info from the OP, Megan, Mary and other type persons need to have the ability, authority and a special budget to call the dealership and say override the policies (such as a Diag Fee) and get this customers car fixed. You might smirk and say "it's not that simple".... well, it could be. Ford just needs to setup a system that allows it in special circumstances only. The ROI would be a moral and financial victory for both Ford and future customers.

The OP got screwed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Closure

Just picked up the car from the shop and it is good to go. I was very impressed with the treatment I got - not only did they follow the TSB instructions to the tee, they took photographs on a tablet to show me the repair! I included some of the pictures they took, in case anyone wants to try this themselves. Sorry the picture quality isn't the greatest - I was taking pictures of the pictures on the tablet.

I had no idea there were so many wires in that harness. 5 of my wires were damaged and needed to be repaired (one was completely severed). It's amazing that the engine was still running and able to limp into the shop's parking lot. They soldered the wires back together, covered them in heat shrink tubing, electrical taped over the heat shrinks, put a heavy duty wire loom over the wires and electrical taped the crap out of the whole thing. There's no way it's going to happen again. All for the very reasonable cost of $143.30. To anyone in the area, I highly recommend Great Lakes Auto Service in Pontiac, MI.







 

·
Old Phart
Joined
·
44,596 Posts
Nicely done repair, and a great deal as well.

The tsb information certainly helped, imagine trying to find that issue without knowing where to look!

I agree with Marde that more flexibility would help with customer satisfaction, my comments are from experience working with manufacturers other than Ford so I know the situation isn't limited to their system.

Those "diagnostic fees" as a standard addition to every bill are something I've fought myself where inappropriate. They can't be charged for a normal warranty repair yet it's become a common way for Dealers to help cover their costs. Other manufacturers I've worked with had policies prohibiting payment of a diagnostic unless pre-approved by them, and there were few cases when an approval was forthcoming.

A diagnostic is fair when a customer insists on more work after a Dealer can't reproduce a problem, but even then it should be waived if a warranty fault is found & repaired.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top