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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So ever since I installed my VF engineering Poly Mounts (Engine/passenger and Transmission/Driver) I've had an issue with engine misalignment. This was most pronounced when I went to change my dogbone mount and noticed the entire engine was at the wrong angle to fit the mount in properly and I had to FORCE the thing together with a combination of crowbars and jacking the engine and loosening other mounts. Visually the passenger side mount appears to have lowered that side of the engine a bit, maybe an inch or 2. I can't say for sure on the driver's side. Anybody else with poly mounts can chime in on what to do about this? I have a 2004 ZX3 2.5 Swapped duratec.
 

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That whole mess does NOT have to be nearly as straight as you think. Even the OEM mounts can easily collapse an inch (and often do) and things still run fine. As well, the dogbone does NOT align at least forward/rearward and up/down at all and intended to be like that. The CV joints auto-correct for up to an inch and more, one of my cars was wrecked and fixed cheapie by me and the engine is actually in bay crooked but mounts last forever still and car drives like a new one with no untoward issues at all.

The only major flaw with the mounting setup there is it allows the motor to rock way too much at the nose to then shake the car with low rpm vibrations that reverb all through the chassis unless running a top quality pass side mount. Harder poly mounts tend to do the same thing, shake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That whole mess does NOT have to be nearly as straight as you think. Even the OEM mounts can easily collapse an inch (and often do) and things still run fine. As well, the dogbone does NOT align at least forward/rearward and up/down at all and intended to be like that. The CV joints auto-correct for up to an inch and more, one of my cars was wrecked and fixed cheapie by me and the engine is actually in bay crooked but mounts last forever still and car drives like a new one with no untoward issues at all.

The only major flaw with the mounting setup there is it allows the motor to rock way too much at the nose to then shake the car with low rpm vibrations that reverb all through the chassis unless running a top quality pass side mount. Harder poly mounts tend to do the same thing, shake.
Yeah unfortunately what I'm talking about isn't just an OCD issue. The dogbone is at an extreme enough angle that it's destroying the bushing and the engine rocks a LOT. I've tried replacing it to no avail. The engine needs to be aligned properly. I didn't have this issue on factory upper mounts. Everything lined up fine.
 

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The dogbone in normal position compresses solidly to one side to seem to crush the biscuit inside, that is the way they go in. They will not stay centered-gravity makes sure of that.

Anything up to one inch in engine movement looking at valve cover is normal movement, you should not expect to stop it. In fact vibration will likely increase greatly if you do.

There is also no alignment procedure at all there, Ford realized long ago that was a waste of time and not needed. All you can do is to 'normalize' the mounts or all loose at the same time to let engine weight fall where it will then tighten all.

Think of the end mounts. trans and pass side as the ends of a swingset frame. Think of a child sitting in a swing on it at rest. The swing hangs straight down, you come over and pull the child back in swing to let go but you do not let go, that is you being the dogbone, it is NOT designed to restrain dead straight down gravity enhanced position. And why it will always crush the rubber to one side. That is to preload the mount to damp out more vibration than it would if the mount fastened at straight down.

And why you had 'no problems' with the upper mounts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The dogbone in normal position compresses solidly to one side to seem to crush the biscuit inside, that is the way they go in. They will not stay centered-gravity makes sure of that.

Anything up to one inch in engine movement looking at valve cover is normal movement, you should not expect to stop it. In fact vibration will likely increase greatly if you do.

There is also no alignment procedure at all there, Ford realized long ago that was a waste of time and not needed. All you can do is to 'normalize' the mounts or all loose at the same time to let engine weight fall where it will then tighten all.

Think of the end mounts. trans and pass side as the ends of a swingset frame. Think of a child sitting in a swing on it at rest. The swing hangs straight down, you come over and pull the child back in swing to let go but you do not let go, that is you being the dogbone, it is NOT designed to restrain dead straight down gravity enhanced position. And why it will always crush the rubber to one side. That is to preload the mount to damp out more vibration than it would if the mount fastened at straight down.
I fully understand all of the physics involved here. You're not understanding me. The engine is tilted at an angle that it shouldn't be and it trashed my dogbone. This is a direct result of the poly mounts. The engine didn't sit that way in the engine bay prior to installing the poly mounts. I know how much movement it did AND should have. I need a solution not an "it's close enough". I race the car in auto cross and drag race it. I'm getting horrible clunking from the dogbone due to the bad engine angle that was NOT there in the factory mounts. I can literally see the difference looking at the engine. When I was on factory upper mounts and poly lower dogbone the engine moved LESS than it does now WITH a brand new poly dogbone (third one in 2 years). The reason why the engine moved less before is because it wasn't horribly misaligned thereby putting stress in the dogbone in a direction it wasn't meant to have, namely partially horizontal and more vertical than normal.
 

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Hey yours and do as you will, I'm going to leave you alone other than to say I understand what you are trying to say as I dragraced 1500+ hp. pro stock @ 200+ mph as well as 800 hp. AMC. And everything in between.

Plastic mounts SUCK, they are a cheap crap replacement to OEM and I tried them for a while to never go there again.

Not arguing about poly mounts not matching OEM specs, they are simply garbage to me.

Some of your ideas there are crap but I'm done with arguing it. I could take the engine and rotate it dead sideways and still run it with no issues. Angle means nothing.

Clunking has nothing whatsoever to do with engine angle, it is either looseness or power applied high enough to deform whatever your absorber is there, or the plastic. You may have to add like a hydraulic damper in there somewhere and what higher power setups have to do. On 500+ hp, 10 second street AMX we used to quick bolt on an engine stabilizing link that in effect solid mounted the engine to stop excess movement but you must be careful with placement of it as in the wrong place you will begin to break parts due to windup binding. We could install it in under 5 minutes.

I'll let you go.
 

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I usually have to use a pry bar to get the dog mount installed. I'm just using poly inserts in that one and the drivers and passenger sides are factory. Given that both of yours are poly, I would expect it to be harder to line up. As for any sagging on the passenger side, I'd have to see pictures of the mount to assess anything. I also have done the 2.5 swap and pulled the engine a couple of times... Are you using the 2.3 timing cover? I can imagine the 2.5 timing cover causing issues with alignment and could make the engine sit lower on the passenger side. Some have modified it to work, but I don't think the mounting holes are in the same location as the 2.3 cover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I usually have to use a pry bar to get the dog mount installed. I'm just using poly inserts in that one and the drivers and passenger sides are factory. Given that both of yours are poly, I would expect it to be harder to line up. As for any sagging on the passenger side, I'd have to see pictures of the mount to assess anything. I also have done the 2.5 swap and pulled the engine a couple of times... Are you using the 2.3 timing cover? I can imagine the 2.5 timing cover causing issues with alignment and could make the engine sit lower on the passenger side. Some have modified it to work, but I don't think the mounting holes are in the same location as the 2.3 cover.
I have the 2.3 timing cover. So I believe the physical dimensions of the poly mounts are different. Brand new the engine sat lower on the poly mounts than Factory mounts. I'm not talking about the usual amount of difficulty with prying the dogbone in. I'm talking completely misaligned. I had to jack the engine up, loosen ALL the mounts, force the engine over and then force the dogbone in at a weird angle and then drop the engine back down which immediately put the dogbone at a weird angle and began tearing the bushing within 1 month because of the diagonal angle of the dogbone
 

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That sucks. Have you contacted the manufacturer about this? Maybe they have some insight or possibly replace them since the mount wasn't made properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
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I swear these pictures make my dogbone look normal. I can promise you however that it was NOT normal going in. Currently my engine rocks so much that my shifter moves forwards and backwards when I get on and off the gas in third gear because the engine/trans is moving enough to pull on the shifter cable linkage and move the shifter handle.
 

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First off from what I can see is that the bolt on the top of the transmission mount bracket is missing. That can definitely cause a clunk. I can see that the passenger mount is at an angle which could cause the dogbone to be difficult to install. Is that what you meant by shimming with washers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
First off from what I can see is that the bolt on the top of the transmission mount bracket is missing. That can definitely cause a clunk. I can see that the passenger mount is at an angle which could cause the dogbone to be difficult to install. Is that what you meant by shimming with washers?
Yeah. The weird thing is that that angle on the passenger mount is how it came. From the factory it's not level. Idk why. I haven't seen any other poly mounts to compare it to.
As for that bolt missing that's because I had to buy a new bracket and that bracket isn't technically the "right" one for my car. The Ford dealer claimed it was but I still have enough bolts in it to hold it firm. There's another bolt you can't see in the picture. Prior to me having to replace that bracket I had the same exact issue with the engine rocking and such. While I'm not opposed to getting that bracket resolved, I know it's not the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First off from what I can see is that the bolt on the top of the transmission mount bracket is missing. That can definitely cause a clunk. I can see that the passenger mount is at an angle which could cause the dogbone to be difficult to install. Is that what you meant by shimming with washers?
I was thinking of raising the whole bracket by stacking the washers between the base of the bracket where the bolts secure it to the car.
 

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The second link seems to have more information, though I just skimmed it over.

You need to get the correct bracket, first and foremost. If it's not made for your car, then it could throw off some alignment. Maybe it's longer which could cause the engine to sit all wonky. Even if it's not the issue, you're still missing a bolt that it was designed to have in place.

But it seems like you're not the only person with the passenger mount issue. Information is out there. Just search and play with keywords. I used "focus vf passenger installed focusfanatics" and dug around a little.

As for peace of mind on your part, it sounds like other people have shimmed that mount. I'm sure it would work, I just question for how long. Maybe longer than you're currently blowing through bushings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·


The second link seems to have more information, though I just skimmed it over.

You need to get the correct bracket, first and foremost. If it's not made for your car, then it could throw off some alignment. Maybe it's longer which could cause the engine to sit all wonky. Even if it's not the issue, you're still missing a bolt that it was designed to have in place.

But it seems like you're not the only person with the passenger mount issue. Information is out there. Just search and play with keywords. I used "focus vf passenger installed focusfanatics" and dug around a little.

As for peace of mind on your part, it sounds like other people have shimmed that mount. I'm sure it would work, I just question for how long. Maybe longer than you're currently blowing through bushings.
I checked and while it's not made for my car the dimensions are identical to the original. I compared it before I installed it. It just has an extra hole that my factory bracket didn't have. All the original factory holes have bolts in them. I'll look into finding the original.

I was having a lot of trouble finding information but what they described with the lower and forward is exactly what happened to me. I've been searching this issue for a long time. I guess you're better at finding that information.

Yeah I guess I'll have to see about shimming it.

Thanks for helping man. I knew I wasn't crazy lol.
 

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I searched on Google for my results, but I'm not finding much of anything else. I'd say shim it a little at a time and find that sweet spot. Once you get that, pull out the washers and measure them. You can always get some aluminum stock and drill and cut to size so you have something a little more "professional" looking.

It still seems like that's just a bandaid to it all. Maybe the passenger side steel bracket is for an automatic (I'm not sure if there is a difference between auto and manual mounts) and causing it to sit lower.

I'll take pictures of mine when I get home this evening. My mount is factory but the steel bracket should be the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·


The second link seems to have more information, though I just skimmed it over.

You need to get the correct bracket, first and foremost. If it's not made for your car, then it could throw off some alignment. Maybe it's longer which could cause the engine to sit all wonky. Even if it's not the issue, you're still missing a bolt that it was designed to have in place.

But it seems like you're not the only person with the passenger mount issue. Information is out there. Just search and play with keywords. I used "focus vf passenger installed focusfanatics" and dug around a little.

As for peace of mind on your part, it sounds like other people have shimmed that mount. I'm sure it would work, I just question for how long. Maybe longer than you're currently blowing through bushings.
I searched on Google for my results, but I'm not finding much of anything else. I'd say shim it a little at a time and find that sweet spot. Once you get that, pull out the washers and measure them. You can always get some aluminum stock and drill and cut to size so you have something a little more "professional" looking.

It still seems like that's just a bandaid to it all. Maybe the passenger side steel bracket is for an automatic (I'm not sure if there is a difference between auto and manual mounts) and causing it to sit lower.

I'll take pictures of mine when I get home this evening. My mount is factory but the steel bracket should be the same.
Maybe you could measure yours? So I could match it?
I can't find any factory mounts anywhere. Do you know where I can get an oem one? Nowhere seems to carry it
 
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