just so everyone knows yea electric good on gas ha ha but when the batteries need replacing will cost more than the cars worth something to think about
I think that you are off target with some of the criticism. Yes, the batteries will eventually need replacement, and they will lose efficiency over time, but we are talking about the batteries going down to maybe 75% useable charge after something like 10 years and 150K+ miles. Do you really think that purchasing a refurbished battery pack for one of these cars in 7-10 years is going to cost the same $15-$20K that it costs today? That is highly unlikely. All of the cost comparisons show that over a 10 year run EVs will cost far, FAR less to operate than even a relatively inexpensive ICE vehicle. The only way the cost of the EV will be higher is if the battery pack is totally destroyed, needs full replacement, and costs as much down the road as it does right now, all of which are, as indicated, highly unlikely scenarios.Those batteries will need to be replaced eventually, and that's not cheap. And unlike a normal car, when you run out of juice, you're SOL. Find a place to charge, and wait for hours. Run out of gas? Walk to the nearest station, fill up a gas can, and walk back. And refueling just takes just a few minutes.
Electric cars definitely aren't smart right now, at least not for everyone. Maybe in a few years.
I feel like Ford will sell less of these than they would have sold a new Focus wagon or the old Euro ST or RS. But I think this is more for publicity than a profit.
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You'd start to see a degradation of capacity pretty quickly. Even if it's only a mile or two for the first year. These are essentially laptop batteries, and I've seen them drop to 75% efficiency in 3 years.The technology is above your knowledge. I do a lot of research on this stuff. LiFePO4 batteries, for example, have a life cycle of 3000 charges. If you charge once per day for your ride to work, then that's over 8 years of life. Those are the lowest cost highest energy density batteries that an EV hobbyist could get their hands on. Li-Ion batteries like in the Volt or Tesla have a life span of 5000 charges which is more like 13 years. Now if you were using lead acid batteries which could weigh the car down excessively, then you're looking at replacing these yearly. Consumers can't purchase NiMh batteries like the manufacturers currently use in hybrids, but according to what I've read those have life spans of over 15k charge cycles.
That may be true, but try selling an EV after 8 years, and the battery has 65% capacity.I've owned a lot of cars, but never owned one for 10 years. If I was to invest in building a hobby EV, then yes, I'd have to keep it for 10 years because that's about how long it would take me to reclaim my investment. That's why I'm not doing it.
That's another issue, what if your car is obsolete next year, and the new battery tech is either expensive to add on, or incompatible completely? It would be like having the original iPod, and the iPod Touch came out a year later.More radical technology is being developed, but we likely won't see it for a few more years. It's carbon nanotube batteries that can be made using paper, and promise high energy density as well as a 30k charge cycle life. We'll see what happens, but one day the naysayers will be like all the guys in the 80's who swore they'd never drive an EFI vehicle and ripped TBI and TPI systems off their Chevys and Fords to replace them with carburetors.
Something I hadn't thought of. The idea is that with more renewable sources of electricity, prices would be able to stay the same. But these corporations are going to want to get their money from somewhere.What's going to really suck is what nobody is bitching about. Currently if you owned an EV you could drive to work exhausting your 100 mile charge in the Leaf or FocusE, and recharging it for a maximum of $3.15 during the most expensive time of day for electricity in CA- home of high energy costs. It's not difficult to see that it's about half the cost of gasoline. Where I live, the same EV would cost me $.56 per day. Eventually, when electric cars become more commonplace and less expensive to purchase- we'll see energy costs skyrocket. If they don't screw you one way, they will screw you another. Right now all the big wigs in Washington are wondering why the economy isn't taking off- well geniuses, maybe $6 gallons of milk don't hurt your family's budget, but they sure hurt mine. So does freaking doubling my fuel costs per month. All that while our employers are bellyaching and begging us to take pay cuts for the good of the company. Even if China stopped buying oil today and costs went down to $1.50/gal, there's no way our retail stores would suddenly drop the prices on goods that have been jacked up due to transportation costs. I've seen this crap happen before in my lifetime, so you kids pay attention. One day you'll be telling the next generation of naysayers "I remember when I could recharge my car for $1 a day instead of $100, and we could afford to live one family to a home."
It's also unlikely that the same tech will be available or compatible in a few years.I think that you are off target with some of the criticism. Yes, the batteries will eventually need replacement, and they will lose efficiency over time, but we are talking about the batteries going down to maybe 75% useable charge after something like 10 years and 150K+ miles. Do you really think that purchasing a refurbished battery pack for one of these cars in 7-10 years is going to cost the same $15-$20K that it costs today? That is highly unlikely.
I can agree that electric or hydrogen cars are the future, but I don't think the technology is ready just yet. I travel less than 50 miles a day every day, but, I occasionally take 100+ mile road trips on the weekend. I certainly can't afford two cars, and recharging from 0 would take all night. Plus, if you run out of gas, you can walk to the station. If you run out of juice, you have to call a tow truck.All of the cost comparisons show that over a 10 year run EVs will cost far, FAR less to operate than even a relatively inexpensive ICE vehicle. The only way the cost of the EV will be higher is if the battery pack is totally destroyed, needs full replacement, and costs as much down the road as it does right now, all of which are, as indicated, highly unlikely scenarios.
What is also unlikely is that someone purchasing an electric will be using it as their primary vehicle if they do a lot of longer distance driving. Most families have multiple vehicles, which leaves the EV in a great spot for providing extremely low maintenance and low cost driving as a commuter or secondary vehicle.
Studies have also shown that even with commuting and running errands, the average American driver puts less than 50 miles a day on a car. That is a range that is totally achievable for today's technology. Americans have the idea in their head that they need a car that has enough range to drive to California every day, even though they probably make a trip like that once a year, if ever.
For families with multiple vehicles, they would use the electric for the high mileage local stuff, and they would use their ICE vehicle for long distance trips.
For those who buy an EV as their single car, because they live in an urban area and don't do a lot of long distance driving, they would likely rent an ICE for the few times a year when they need to drive substantially further than the range of the EV.
It's also worth noting that the "charging for hours and hours" thing is also a bit of a myth. Even with the Leaf, with the average daily drive of 25-40 miles, the typical driver would only need to charge it at home for 3-4 hours on 220V to fully charge it. If charging with the 480V rapid charger at some place like a grocery store, the car can be charged from 0% to 100% in 30 minutes which makes it completely practical for driving to a commuter station, grocery store, etc, and having plenty of time to top the battery off while shopping for a few minutes or hopping aboard local transit.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that EV is "better" than gas (even though it is better in some areas such as pollution... far easier to control the emissions of 1000 electric power plants than millions of individual vehicles)... gas has more energy density per gallon than anything else, which is why we use it.
However, there's no getting around the fact that even if we see a reprieve in gas prices in the short term, they are going to continue going up in the long term, no matter what we do. China and India will pick up the slack in any reduced consumption or increased production we provide. Not to mention that the Arab world does not have the fortitude to go back to $30 a barrel oil. Any increased domestic production will be offset by reduced production overseas.
So, gas is getting more expensive, and every year there is a little less of it. Will we hit "peak" oil production this decade? Next decade? Next century? It matters little, because, climate issues, massive global energy demand and other factors totally out of our control are going to drive the shift away from pure gas vehicles.
I expect that this will happen faster than most people realize. In as little as 7-10 years I expect fully 1/2 of all new vehicles sold to be electrified in some fashion whether it is plug-in hybrid technology, etc.
For those that feel that their choices are being taken away, they aren't. Gas burners will likely be available for decades to come, for those who want no compromise range and performance. Just don't cry to the rest of us when gas hits $5 or $10 a gallon down the road and we are powering our "go-karts" with solar energy.
Or, you could just get a 220V generator and some propane and charge it all you like after a hurricane, along with running your emergency power.An interesting point on electric cars in emergencies from AutoBlog.
Basically, if a hurricane is on the way, you can stock up on gas, or even just go to the closest station and fill up. But, if your car didn't finish it's charge because the power went out in the middle of the night, and a hurricane is quickly approaching, you're shit out of luck.
Actually, I'm a big fan of electric cars, especially the ones that don't look horrible, like the Tesla Roadster. But the technology has a long way to go before it's really ready for everyone.At the end of the day, what we are seeing is FEAR. Fear of a changing world in which you might actually see a non gas powered vehicle on the road as something other than a complete oddity. Fear of less choice in picking the car you want that wastes as much fuel as you like depending on your own personal preference. Personally these fears appear foolish to me. Gas vehicles will still be the dominant ones sold for decades to come, regardless of the efforts of Ford, Nissan or the Federalis. What will drive electric vehicles to eventual dominance are simple economics. A.k.a, continually increasing gas prices over time, more and more apparent signs that global warming isn't a "hoax" and will affect us in real ways, etc.
Until batteries can last more than 100 miles, the cars can be larger (and not look goofy), they can accelerate to highway speeds quickly, and quick charging stations are almost as popular as gas stations, then we're not there. Until you can completely replace an ICE vehicle with an EV, we're not ready for them. People can't always afford to have two cars. I'll admit, for some, the current electric cars are fine. But for everyone, we're far from being able to replace gas powered cars with electric.I think the technology is closer to "being there" for a larger number of Americans than you realize, but I completely respect your opinion.
I don't think we need electrics with 250-500 mile ranges and 2 minute battery swaps to sell millions of people on buying a car that will in all likelihood cost them less to own in the long run than an ICE vehicle.
I test drove the Nissan Leaf over the weekend (they had their drive event in Colorado) and I went in with very low expectations, yet was VERY impressed with what Nissan has put onto the market for a generation I vehicle. If someone drove an average of 30-50 miles a day (which many do) the Leaf would be just about perfect for a secondary car, or even the primary car of someone who lives in an urban area.
I was there, too, and also walked away very impressed!I test drove the Nissan Leaf over the weekend (they had their drive event in Colorado) and I went in with very low expectations, yet was VERY impressed with what Nissan has put onto the market for a generation I vehicle. If someone drove an average of 30-50 miles a day (which many do) the Leaf would be just about perfect for a secondary car, or even the primary car of someone who lives in an urban area.