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Discussion Starter #1
On the Duratec 2.3 engines, the alternator and A/C compressor appear to bolt directly to the block with 3 bolts.

At least on the A/C compressor, these bolts appear to be 3 of the 4 bolts that would be on a Zetec engine (although that engine uses an adapter plate).

Is the bolt pattern on the alternator the same as the bolt pattern on the A/C compressor? If one had a Zetec engine, could one mount a Duratec alternator in the location of the Zetec A/C compressor?

I don't have any of those parts to test this with, but relocating the alternator would have all kinds of benefits under the hood of my non-Focus...so I really appreciate any input!
 

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I doubt it. Looking at a Duratec alt it appears the spread of one pair of holes is way wider than the other single one to encompass the entire alt body inside of them, the zetec compressor has the spread nowhere near that wide and the compressor not as big in OD and the bolt holes still impinge on the OD at that, they do not 'stand proud' and well away from the part like the alt hole bosses do.

One would likely be heavily re-clocking the back cover too, the outputs would be smashing against the mount casting or motor block it appears.

You can likely go to parts store and have them pull parts out and decide fast enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks. If the front-rear mounting holes are similar I could maybe make an adapter plate. Re-clocking the back cover is easy. Having the alternator out of the way so I could reach the oil filter and removing a chunky aluminum bracket would make the engine bay much less crowded (this being for the RWD Volvo/Zetec, so engine bay is nothing like a Focus bay).

I'm at sea, so the nearest auto parts store is a few hundred miles away. I like to order the parts while I'm out here, so I can work until I get stuck, then have a month on the ship to brainstorm over the next solution.

The other possibility is to stick with the current Zetec alternator in the a/c compressor location and traditional "70's style" pivoting mount (to tension belt), but I still need 4 pulleys (because water pump is reverse, and making a custom water pump is way more expensive and not-available-at-a-parts-store complicated than adding an idler).
Disadvantage is the case looks larger than the Duratec alternator (maybe I'm wrong about that?) and there won't be as much room for belt adjustment; I'd like to put a tensioner where the power steering pump was (Volvo has manual steering and brakes).
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yep, considered it, but it's not an off-the-shelf part in the US, and they're a couple hundred bucks by the time you buy a water pump, buy the impeller, ship from Dunnell or IK (I've worked with both of them on this swap so far); then have to press the old impeller off and a new impeller on. Oh, and there's a long lead time, so if I buy one, I'm buying two, so I'm not sitting in Podunk for a month waiting for a water pump*. I haven't worked with Quicksilver, but they also haven't responded to calls or emails so I gave up.

In that case, adding a belt tensioner in a location to allow the original pump rotation seems a lot easier, if not quite as neat.

To be honest, I could stick with the original belt and routing, but it takes up a lot of real estate. The alternator and oil filter are wedged against the fender so the oil filter can only be removed if I pull the radiator or the intake manifold; if the alternator and bracket were gone, I could reach it easily. Just losing the belt tensioner would help.

Also, having the belt across the whole engine bay, with 3 idlers to run 2 accessories (water pump and alternator) just doesn't make me happy. I have lots of room, in exactly all the places the Zetec is made to stuff into the Focus engine bay; and I'm crowded at all the point where the Focus has access.

Such is the life of an engine swap! :D

*Amusing side note: At the time I started restoring the Volvo body, I had an Infiniti G35, that was about 3 years old and just inside of the warranty. I went through a car wash, one of the electronically controlled engine mounts(!) shorted out and the ECM fried. I was in Houston, TX, traveling to work from Buffalo, NY. In less time than it took Infiniti to get a computer for the G35 (that they were still making at the time!), Volvo were able to send me a NEW (not "new old stock"!) windshield and rubber body seals from Sweden. Which wasn't particularly fast; but I replaced the Infiniti with a '99 Mustang because every parts store everywhere has everything I need to fix it. And for drivetrain parts, I'm trying to make the Volvo somewhat similar (it has a lot of Mustang parts, lol).
 

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If you only knew how much I hate that belt run as well..................one of these days one of my projects before death is to cobble up an old school belt adjuster to ditch those UTTERLY CRAP tensioners. Not ONE has any sort of a spring harmonic internal damper worth spit, they all wear out in maybe a month or two and then the pulley bounces around to make enough noise to drive you mad. One really big reason why they went to OWC alt pulleys, to help that out with another $100 part that then itself breaks over and over. ANYTHING AT ALL we can do to make the engines seem more impressive tech wise in the glowing reviews while making them cheaper and more likely to break.

If that last sentence were a nominating requirement Ford would win that award every single year.
 

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Spring loaded pulleys are just another quick assembly/no judgement needed update. No requirement for time consuming adjustment to fit, no tension gauge or experienced eyeballs/fingers needed.

Actually can be kinda useful on Poly-V belts, since the adjustment range for proper tension is smaller than the old v-belts and they were often over tensioned with adjusters. (solution for the ham fingered)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm definitely not anti-technology. Spring-loaded belt tensioners are great.
The one on my '87 F150 has been fine for a decade.
The one on my Mustang is original (1999 with 140k miles).
But I've seen plenty of them limp and useless before the belt they went on with is gone.

I still like them better than the new "one use and cut it off" stretchy belts.

That said, I'm probably going to use an old Jeep belt tensioner setup with a custom bracket on the Volvo. I have a tension gauge and I'm not afraid to use it.

I'm much less worried about a welded steel bracket going bad; if it does, I can re-weld it (or have it welded almost anywhere). The Jeep tensioner bolts are available through Mopar parts or Dorman at almost any parts store.
 

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I'm not anti-technology at all either, I embrace it 100% but it needs to be BETTER not just different. I've had several different brands of tensioner apart, there for a while I was rebuilding them myself to make them last longer than the new parts at least when they used to be $80 each.

The worst tensioners I found for these cars were the Ford branded ones, take them apart and see why. I've killed more than one here in the dirt of Texas summer south winds in less than 40 K miles, the last one went in less than a year. Brand new parts when I started.

If S-wrapping (a printing term, I was a web printer for 35+ years) like when using a serp belt run the tension doesn't even need to be really high. One of the belt setups on one of my cars has a modded tensioner that I heated the spring on to rebend for more tension, it instead killed the spring steel heat treat and then the belt tension backed WAAAAY off due to the softer spring bending under load. That one makes virtually no noise at all and the tension is likely in OUNCES, I have pulled the belt off and put it back on BY HAND, zero tools used to lever the pulley and easily for years now. Yet with the s-wrap (increases belt friction) of the normal belt run it drives all things (even a/c) with zero issues.

Go figure...........
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yes, belt routing makes much more of a difference than the tensioner.
The F150 and Mustang both have a convoluted layout where the belt makes significant directional changes for long runs resulting in most of the pulleys having half their surface contacting the belt--the "s-wrap", I think?
Most modern cars seem to be arranged to where the belt direction changes are minimal, pulley engagement is 1/4-1/3, and the tensioner just makes up for the belt stretch by squeezing in on one of the longer runs (less than 1/4 of the pulley engaged). The older ones seem to be in locations where they actually change the belt direction and have noticeably more engagement; that may be why they last longer and work better?
 

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You'll for sure want more belt wrap around the alternator & a/c....
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You'll for sure want more belt wrap around the alternator & a/c....
No a/c.
That's the reason for re-routing. No need for 3 idlers and a tensioner to run the alternator and water pump.
No reason for a very long belt covering the whole front of the engine bay when everything can be mounted in a compact grouping with equivalent or better belt to pulley contact.
I was just hoping if 2 or more of the alternator bolts lined up with an existing (A/C) bracket, I could do this with a simple brace and existing parts.
I'd probably be changing the thickness of the alternator mount and the length of the manual tensioner bracket to make the whole thing work with a standard belt; "hey Mr Parts Guy, what 6-rib belt of about this length do you always have more than 1 of in stock?".

And then I have room to change my oil filter, too.

I could just remote-mount the filter, but then I'm crowding the engine bay more and making it more complex, to avoid re-engineering a belt drive that's designed for equipment I don't have in a car the engine isn't mounted in anymore.

Again...such is the life of the engine swap! :D
 

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There are a few of the belts that are double stacked, quite a few of the belts are pretty close in length depending on the tensioner/s...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
There are a few of the belts that are double stacked, quite a few of the belts are pretty close in length depending on the tensioner/s...
...now you've got me confused [???:)]

What I am hoping to do is place the alternator in the location the a/c would be on the Zetec; using a Duratec alternator.
If two of the bolts line up, and the pulley lands in the right spot, I can just add a spacer (stack of washers or drilled chunk of steel) to position the alternator away from the block to where the case isn't wedged against it.
Then I essentially have a triangular belt run, with the tensioner placed where the power steering was, and the back side of the long part of the belt run acting on the water pump.

That's all I was asking in the original post (although the slight off-topic has been enjoyable too).
 
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