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Discussion Starter #1
This is about Auto Zone Duralast drum part number 80112.

Had a rear bearing fail about 6 months ago and replaced the drum and shoes on passenger side only. Finally got around to replacing the other side yesterday.

I pulled off both drums because I did not paint the one I installed 6 months ago and I wanted to put new drum retaining nuts on. When I pulled off the 6 month old drum, I found the bearing was bad. Auto Zone gave me a replacement for free... but I took the last one they had on the shelf.

Now I have 2 new drums. Same part number but each drum was slightly different and the box they came in was different too. Sorry, I painted the one on the left side before the picture.









Please note that the ABS tone ring is not installed on either drum.

My question for you guys is; what is the name of the ring that the screwdriver is touching? I will call it a "guide" for now. The old OEM drums had the guide. One of the new Duralast drums has the guide, the other new Duralast drum does not have the guide. Obviously these two are from different Chinese manufactures or batches and manufactured with different specs. Ref side-by-side drums in pic above, the one on the left side (1) I painted it before the picture (2) has no guide (3) does not have the ruff orange peel protection on the outside (3) the box opens up from the top (4) I hope is the older design that Auto Zone is fazing out. I prefer the other one, the one on the right side. The one on the left side is also the same exact type that was installed on my car for 6 months and I found the bearing damaged. It had tossed out lots of clear grease and had some axial play.

Here is what they looked like just before putting the dust caps on and finishing the job. First is the one I like, the one with the guide and with orange peel texture.




Here is the one I do not like.


After running a new non-painted drum for 6 months it looked like this. Never again.
 

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I am not familiar with that specific drum and the ring in question so I am sorry that I cannot help you with that.

The aftermarket drum and rotor industry was allowed to die in the US because the Federal Trade Commission only imposed an 8% tarrif on drums and rotors that were being imported from China and sold below market value. At first there were many manufacturers, then at each review there were less, and the FTC would only keep the 8% tarrif in place and do nothing to actually level the playing field. At the last review the few remaining "manufacturers" were now petitioning for the removal of the tarrif as they had now sourced their parts from China as well, and manufacturing drums and rotors for the aftermarket in the US died.

That's why you can only buy crap now. The casting surface on the outside of the drum that you do like is absolutely attrocious. That would never pass in this country as something to be sold. The material that they use is inferior, and the machining is sometimes ok, sometimes not as ok as it needs to be.


Steve
 

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I think the ring is officially called the "water seal carrier", it makes contact on the water seal on the spindle to keep foreign matter out of the bearing.

If you still have your old drum you can carefully pry it out and reuse it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The casting surface on the outside of the drum that you do like is absolutely attrocious. That would never pass in this country as something to be sold. The material that they use is inferior, and the machining is sometimes ok, sometimes not as ok as it needs to be.


Steve
Thanks for the insight and feedback. The drum I like... seems like a newer and better version and is designed closer to the OEM drum; largely because it has the Guide. I am not going to call that thing a guide anymore since Sniper Focus gave it a name-> water seal carrier.

The casting surface on the outside of the drum seems like it is "absolutely atrocious" but I am guessing it was done on purpose. Other surface areas are not orange peel textured. The orange peel might be casted but might also be sprayed on after casting. Similar to spray-on truck bed liners... or maybe not, -I am just guessing.

Also, maybe-just-maybe the drum without the water seal carrier is more likely to fail... my first one did after only 6 months.

I think the ring is officially called the "water seal carrier", it makes contact on the water seal on the spindle to keep foreign matter out of the bearing.

If you still have your old drum you can carefully pry it out and reuse it.
Thanks. Yeah I still have the old drums. I tried to pull the seal out (only lightly tho) and it wanted to stay where it was.

Sure wish I had matching drums on the car now. Guess I am a rolling test bed for Duralast drums. Also wish I had taken the new drums, pressed in new Timkens and had water seal carriers on both. Oh well, -Meh.
 

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A dust and rock shield, some part makers include them, others don't. The true seal is in the bearing itself behind the circlip. The mismatched parts issue is common, just like the other guys you can get as many as 10 different discs in same box or different boxes and the different ones never seem to play out to have one or the other box disappear. I saw multiple boxes for years on end, the box suppliers also change every fifteen minutes based on price quotes that move up and down every day. The big parts chains have so many suppliers for each part it's not funny, the parts change with virtually every box you open. Getting 'matched' sets were often a problem, lots of people base their ideas of quality on being able to do it.

You can go long periods without that shield, I looked for them on Tempo driveshafts back in the day and could find none on the supplied driveshafts. They didn't even list a part in the seal catalogs for them. Ford only at like $20 a pop and you guessed it, I ditched the part, the car still running now and some 20 years later. I also don't have the shields on at least 2 focus rear brake drums. More like a slinger, if you go underwater they will pass it instantly so not doing much good there. Mainly to keep dirt particles from the bearing seal itself.
 

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What kind of paint did you use Marde ? What should I ask for at the parts shop ?
It must be some better than average paint to withstand the temperature. It's a bit late for my drums ( all rusted now ) but I am willing to give them a good wire brushing and try it since I am about to change the rear bearings!
Thanks !
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Paint type is called "brake drum & caliper paint". Most car parts stores have it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
...Guess I am a rolling test bed for Duralast drums. Also wish I had taken the new drums, pressed in new Timkens and had water seal carriers on both. Oh well, -Meh.
After less than a year, the rear drivers side brakes are now squeaking during many of my stops. I know I hit all the shoe contact points with plenty of grease, so it bums me out that I gotta pull the drum(s) off again, ugh. I got a funny feeling the Autozone (Chinese) bearing is failing again! When I did this last time, I used a new axle nut and did the torque properly.

If the bearing looks/feels bad, I will not use ANOTHER Autozone drum (bearing). Instead of getting a free replacement at Autozone again, I might (finally listen to myself) have a shop press in a reputable brand of bearing.

Maybe I will just go buy the bearings in advance, and find a shop ready to press em in, before I pull the drums off. Good idea. Thanks Marde, I appreciate the idea & your help.

This post is just me whining, sorry guys. I will post back after I get it opened up and let you know what happened. <end unnecessary rant>

$32 for ONE good bearing, uhg. Just called Autozone, they sell the same part# for $42 and said they might price match it. Update you later.
http://www.amazon.com/Timken-516007-Bearing/dp/B000BZ6W2E
 

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And why the part sellers use the cheap crap bearings in most of their replacement drums. I never buy a drum with a bearing in it, only best of the best bearings go in and waiting for when those lose their quality as well, it seems to be the norm now to sell crap in everything.

I never got drum brake squeaking to stop permanently using grease on the contact points, the noise comes back at varying time but always before one year. Best thing I did was knocking off the corner on the end of the shoes, that pretty much stopped 100% of it. They may do it for only a second if car has sat in rainy weather for a week (rusty drum), but one good stop and then noise stays gone again.

The pads move forward with car in slow roll traffic, then they snap back and do it again over and over. All at a thousand times a second or so. It turns into the squeal and magnified by the backing plate which is too thin and rings like a bell. Why greasing the contact points stop it, but it's back as soon as they wipe dry again. The right angle corner of the LEADING end of shoe digs in to do the creep, knock that corner way off with a shallow angle like new wave disc pads have and the pad cannot dig in enough to move forward. One end only, top of front shoe and bottom of back.

Both my cars squealed and once done on the exact same shoes that were making the noise have not done it since.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Best thing I did was knocking off the corner on the end of the shoes, that pretty much stopped 100% of it.

...

The right angle corner of the LEADING end of shoe digs in to do the creep, knock that corner way off with a shallow angle like new wave disc pads have and the pad cannot dig in enough to move forward. One end only, top of front shoe and bottom of back.

...

Both my cars squealed and once done on the exact same shoes that were making the noise have not done it since.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm gunna tear into it within the next week and will post-back what I find.

The new pads had tapered edges on the leading and trailing edges a tiny bit (IIRC). The tapered edges were still kinda sharp, so I (only) hit them with some sand-paper prior to install. When I rework the drum(s) I might hit those edges and add some more tapering using a die-grinder or similar.

This thread talked about installing 2 different drums, each with the same part number; one I liked; one I did not like. The one I did not like was an older stock item in the Autozone system-> this one is also no longer available (in Arizona) and is also the one that is squeaking. I have a feeling I got the last of a bad batch, and the newer type (shown in pics above from last year) might be better/more reliable than the old batch... wishful thinking huh?

I might give another new Duralast drum one more chance after-all...
If that old-batch bearing looks/feels bad, I might get the "free" drum replacement with a new-batch drum... and then I will have a matching set of drums, each with the water seal carrier.

On another note, I just got two new Timken 516007 bearings in my garage. So I am ready to go either way; another free Duralast drum or install new bearings in the drums I am driving on now.

BTW - Autozone told me that they are now/about to stop selling Timken boxed & branded bearings and will replace most bearings with a Duralast logo box that are actually manufactured by Timken. See the small print on current & future boxes of Duralast parts to find out who actually manufactured or sourced the item.
 

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I put such a shallow angle on my shoes that it ran for like an inch up the shoe length. Look at current upper price end disc pads for an example of how far you can go. Where I got the idea, it's done on disc pads for exact same reason. The pretty much metallic linings now used are much closer in hardness to the disc or drum material than the old asbestos damped ones were and as we all know--metal to metal makes noise.

FYI, in an attempt to tighten up clearances to make the self adjuster closer in clearance to the shoes I also have rebent the shoes' little eyelet loop where the adjuster bar hooks into it. I bent them closer using IIRC an everyday paper clip as a gauge shim to bend to. The two shoes being a bit closer to the bar have a tendency to not be as loose; it may help with some of the squeal issue.

Yes, I know, I just can't leave anything alone can I? Dad used to tell me the same thing.
 

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'Autozone told me that they are now/about to stop selling Timken boxed & branded bearings and will replace most bearings with a Duralast logo box that are actually manufactured by Timken.'

Could be a really big problem with that, when they do the product often drops like a rock in value even with a 'good' name on it. What I often found when working in the business. Literally ALL of our trusted names are being whored out like that, the big chains want the bottom dollar product and with their names all over it like it means something important. I suppose all the brainwashing works on the millenials but not us older guys who still remember what real quality was like.

Be guided by price, if the supposed Timken suddenly gets much more affordable it will be crap. All the money in bearings is in the heat treats, they can back off of those and lower the price greatly but the part then will not last as long.

I've found in the past that country of origin got printed on the boxes but NOT the exact maker, they want to be able to source from 5-10 or even more makers at a time to whipsaw them against each other 100% of the time for lower pricing. I watched that happen to a bunch of big name companies, they were forced to cow down and accept it or no more part orders. You have to pull part out of the box and look at it say if bearing to know who made it. When it comes to like house brand brake pads and shoes you have no idea of who made them, but they'll tell you happily a name brand and often a lie if the counter guy says it. I've had it pulled on me, popped bearing out and then read the maker back to part guy and then just laughed. Some unknown Chinese maker. CRAP. I rib parts guys to no end.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I put such a shallow angle on my shoes that it ran for like an inch up the shoe length.
Unsure if or how much tapper I will add, but I like your idea.


Be guided by price, if the supposed Timken suddenly gets much more affordable it will be crap. All the money in bearings is in the heat treats, they can back off of those and lower the price greatly but the part then will not last as long.
Timken will continue to deliver their 516007 bearing to the entire world while simultaneously supplying the same exact part to AutoZone; but wrapped in a Duralast box with small print that says Timken on it. If you are suggesting that Timken would make a cheaper version of the 516007 for some distibutors (like AutoZone) I think that would be disgraceful, almost suicidal of Timken.

The two 516007's that I got from AutoZone were apparently some of the last ones "in a Timken box" they had in this area. Minutes after buying them is when I found out about the Duralast/Timken change. Once home, I inspected each box and each bearing closely and found some differences. The two "identical" bearings are obviously; (#1) made in Hungary (#2) made from different batches, maybe several years apart from another. The outer race on each is slightly different and has stamped text different on each.

Funny; first I get the drums from different manufactures and now I get these bearings from different eras. Uhg. I'm going to return these bearings just for spite; and tell them I am tired of buying the crumbs on the floor.

Timken has a large office and a manufacturing plant here in Mesa... maybe I will... nah, forget it.
 

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'If you are suggesting that Timken would make a cheaper version of the 516007...'

That is EXACTLY what I am suggesting, wouldn't be the first time a world trusted car parts company did that. Fram, Borg Warner, Sealed Power come to mind...........

The big part chains are now collectively as powerful as Walmart in their ability to force old school name brand companies to change product to lower and lower quality to avoid extinction. Why so many who refused for years to cave in to supplying generic product in chain boxes are now folding on the idea left and right. It's either that or one of the big consortiums buys the entire corporation up to then do it anyway. We really are getting to where we cannot trace where most of our parts really come from. Where I worked many lines would simply say the product could be from as many as ten suppliers and different one with every batch. The chains whipsaw the suppliers against each other endlessly. The two big ones, AZ and Oro fight for name branded major lines all day long; they commonly switched every year or two and why we were constantly tearing out entire lines of product only to do them next year over again and right back to the guy we had tossed out just last year. That occurred sometimes back in the '80s in parts but now you never stop doing it, they are changing lines virtually every single month and so much wasted money on counter help redoing everything month to month you just can't grasp it.

Part quality generally suffers a bit more with every one of those changes as it signals that the major maker has crossed more lines in how far down he can lower his bottom line.
 

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Knockoff parts in Factory look packaging are also an issue, not up to date on Auto problems with this but Bendix has had enough returns of Truck Parts not made by them as "defective" that they put out bulletins to be on guard for the issue.

Tough for the individual to determine, as packaging is an exact match. Cheap price & poor appearance/fitment is the only clue.

Once parts go through distributor channels, the original source is tough to track.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I might give another new Duralast drum one more chance after-all...
If that old-batch bearing looks/feels bad, I might get the "free" drum replacement with a new-batch drum... and then I will have a matching set of drums, each with the water seal carrier.
I pulled the rear wheels off of my car last night and...

After pulling the dust cap off of the drivers side, I could see the bearing had blown its' wad. Got a free replacement at AutoZone, and now I have two matching drums, each with the water seal carrier.

Pulled the dust cap off of the passenger side, it looked fine, so I did not pull that drum off, -no reason to.

I was wrong, the Duralast Gold brake shoes are not tapered. It was late, I was lazy, so I did not modify the shoes (add a tapered edge) but I still like AMC's idea to do that.

So, the end of this story is the old style of Duralast drums/bearings failed on me twice; both failed fast, one at 6 months, one at 9 months. The new style (had one of them on for 9 months now) has not failed on me yet, so there is no reason to complain.

As you guys mentioned, there are many reasons why distributors change their parts and/or suppliers; but maybe AutoZone noticed the old style drum was getting too many returns, so that helped motivate them to move to the newer design and might also be a different Chinese supplier.
 

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Man I used to get a lot of returns on those value priced drum/bearing combos, the cheap bearings used there to cut cost just don't live there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
"those value priced drum/bearing combos"

Yes, value priced, but there are no other choices at AutoZone. They have one drum for my car, and it comes with the bearing pre-installed. Likely the same thing at competitor car part stores. If they offered two; one cheap one, and one with a Better bearing, I would have bought the Better one the first time I walked in.

Buying a new drum combo and immediately replacing the bearing (with a name-brand bearing) is kinda "strange". Hard to justify doing this until after experiencing multiple bearing failures of these combos.

The front disc brakes are a different story. Seems like it is much more common to buy a hub and bearing separate, or as a kit. Since I am keeping and improving this old Focus, I will hopefully purchase my front set in advance of the originals failing... and avoid the urgent need/quality/pricing of local car part stores.

Note to Self: buy these soon->
Timken HA590263K Axle Bearing and Hub Assembly
http://www.amazon.com/Timken-HA590263K-Axle-Bearing-Assembly/dp/B000X3IJJI
 

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I don't understand buying a hub if not damaged, not like it's a bolt in assy..

(Rear disc brake hubs ARE an assy.)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I don't understand buying a hub if not damaged,
Good point. New hub not needed AFAIK. Replacing both however is a common practice (during the press-out press-in process) needed or not.

That kit is a good deal tho. Bearing only verses kit cost difference is not bad ($20?) and kit includes a new axle nut and bearing cir-clip, needed or not.

In my imaginary world of good, great and perfect; the front wheel bearing job only gets done once in the life of my Focus. Kind of like my rear wheel bearings... Oh wait!... maybe not so perfect after all.
 
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