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Discussion Starter #1
Just had a thought here and wanted to know if it was retarted. I am currently running a JRSC with a boost kit as well as a ton of other mods. I like the supercharger and the hp is o.k for me, but was talking to Tom and found out that he has a pretty good turbo build kit available. I know the pros and cons of each system, but would it be possible to incorporate both supercharger and turbo on one engine ? I mean with a small turbo that spools up at low rpms and then the supercharger that kicks in at high rpms, im thinking the car would be a rocket ! It would probably put a ton of strain on the engine but with the right install and tune, could it be done or am I just asking for something terrible to happen ?
 

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So mote be it
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It's possible but you have it backwards...The supercharger would be best for low RPM's and the turbo for the upper ones.


some examples:
http://www.superchargerperformance....ing-turbocharger-and-supercharger-performance
http://jalopnik.com/5554704/550hp-turbocharged-supercharged-wide+body-lotus-exige-any-questions

From that first link:
There are three aspects to these types of systems that make them prohibitive to most tuners:

1. Cost and complexity: Having a complete supercharger system as well as a complete turbocharger system on the same time is a lot of money to spend and a lot of parts to deal with and diagnose in case something goes wrong.
2. The bypass valve used to bypass the supercharger (and yet hold in all the air pressure coming from the turbocharger) as well as being able to control this valve electrically or mechanically requires a custom made one off valve that isn’t quite available off the shelf.
3. Since we are using two different types of chargers with two different efficiency maps, it can get very complicated to figure out how to tune the motor (especially with much simpler fuel injection systems that were used at the time) because the air density can vary dramatically at the same rpm point and pressure level depending on which charger is feeding air to the motor and at what proportion. This is also where the HKS turbo kit for the 4agze was at its weakest, namely at smoothing the transition point fueling between the supercharger to turbocharger switchover.
 

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It has been done on here by another member. Do a search for it and Im sure youll find it. Dont know how far the member got. I think the last thing I seen he blew the engine then stopped the build after that. I know that the 03 and 04 cobras are doing the compund boost thing.
 

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It's called twincharging. It's been done on other platforms, but I think the downfall is that none of the focus engines will stand up to that abuse. VW uses it on their 1.4 and I think that thing puts out around or over 200 hp. The bottom end would have to be really stout to make it. I have thought about it in the past on my DSM. There are three or four out there that have done it and I think they are roughly in the 400ish hp range with no lag which is nice. If you aren't going for big numbers, I would just look into what the charger is capable of. If you are, then build, build, build up that bottom end to be very strong.
 

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Shot me 3 deer!!!
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thats not the problem. the problem comes in the heat. the supercharger boost isn't intercooled, and if you run a powerworks, its too small. so cram 10 psi in a supercharger exxtra from a turbo and the compressed air will actually hurt you in that you will have deto. wayyyyy too hot.
 

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My original plan was to run an M62 or M90 in the place where the A/C used to be and then plumb that through a side mount intercooler. The 3000GTs had dual sidemounts so you could mount one on each side. Then I was going to run to the turbo and from there it would flow throught the factory side mount. Now this was on my DSM so I'm not sure if there is room for side mounts on a Focus. I abandoned that route for now cuz I really need a four door car for the kids.

You will need to cool the air after both chargers to keep the intake temps down and keep the pistons from melting. If I end up going all out on my swap, then I am thinking of doing twincharging. Need to get the swap going first though.
 

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Shot me 3 deer!!!
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the JRSC is not intercooled, nor is there capability to w/o serious heavy custom modification. so there is no chance of running a dual setup w/ a jackson unless you have massive amounts of wmi.
 

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That was my biggest conern about running those type of chargers. Unless you find one that has a water to air cooler built into it, then I worry about temps. If your really handy, you might be able to make a water to air plate to sandwich between the charger and head. Somthing around 1" think would probably work, but you would need to make 4 chamber version which would SUCK
 

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Discussion Starter #10
the JRSC is not intercooled, nor is there capability to w/o serious heavy custom modification. so there is no chance of running a dual setup w/ a jackson unless you have massive amounts of wmi.
What do you mean by wmi ?
 

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( o Y o )
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water/meth injection. it cools the intake charge like nitrous. Ever get rubbing alcohol on your skin? It should feel really cool as the alcohol evaporates quickly.
 

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Water/Meth is a good alternative if you want to go with that kind of setup (combined intake and charger). I would still go the other route. Probably cheaper anyway. You could pick up an M90 for about $300 and nice turbo for $400-$500. I'm not sure on the price of a header and exhaust, but if you are thinking turbo then you can find a kit. Buy the charger, extra intercooler, and some piping. You will still need a tuning route no matter what are forcing with so that won't be extra. I'm betting you could go from turbo to twincharging for $500-$600 + actual tune.
 

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Shot me 3 deer!!!
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you will need to run a used SC kit. but honestly, there is no point. you will get more power straight from a turbo over the combined kit. you could run a blower larger, but it will suck engine torque down low. not to mention it would be a completely custom setup. and it will cost you about 10x ur estimate. if ur going w/ a stock kit like powerworks, ur still gonna spend another 2k on a kit or more. and it still won't be adaquate.
 

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I disagree with you saying there is not point. If you want to compare peak to peak, then yes the straight turbo will make more power. On that note we could slap the biggest turbo known to man on there and make the most power. The problem with big turbos is that unless you are drag racing, they are useless. This is a best of both world thing here. You get great off idle torque and I would be you would hardly get into high boost. Street racing is nothing like bench racing. Doesn't matter to me if you can make 800 HP and 40 PSI of boost if you can't make more than 200 HP before 6K. By that time you will be passed by most any car today. Area under the curve is what you want for street and as flat a torque curve as possible. Those are the fast cars. Ones that make the torque and don't ever let off. That is where twincharging really shines. It gives you the torque you are missing with the turbo off the line. The last guy I talked to that did this was making 8PSI at 1500 RPM and the turbo went to around 25 by 4000 RPM.

I'm not sure why you think this would be so expensive. If you are going to turbo your car anyway, then 95% of the cost of there already. You have a charger to buy, some piping, a pulley, and a intercooler. You still have to get it tuned and you will need no fuel upgrades beyond what the turbo would need. You are going to make less pressure than the turbo, so other than fabrication and tune you need nothing else. Now if you are already supercharged and you want to add the turbo, then you have some larger costs.

I know for a fact that I can put the whole thing together for around $600.

Ebay M90 off TBird - $290 shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-M90-s...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f0f61c8ba

Side mount intercooler - DSM $50 shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-94-1G-DS...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cb9066556

Intercooler piping kit - Large - $170 shipped
http://www.ebay.com/itm/90-94-Eclip...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4ced2be564

That is $510 in parts. If your handy with tools you can build a custom intake and outlet for the M90. Then brackets, bolt on, and tune. This leave you $490 to do all that so you could upgrade your turbo to twincharged for about $1000 tops.
 

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Can't wait to see it.
 

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PARTS HUNTER
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Lol can't wait
 

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Hmmm...not sure if you all think I'm going to do this...I might eventually, but it will be a few years after I get the rest of the swap done, or if I get anxous and do it to my Talon.
 
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