Focus Fanatics Forum banner

Factory Lugs suck or is it just me?

  • Suck

    Votes: 36 72.0%
  • You're nuts, they're just fine. (or is it just YOUR nuts?)

    Votes: 14 28.0%

  • Total voters
    50
81 - 100 of 119 Posts

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
xD i dont own any 5 bolt focus's all my focuses are stock 2000-2003 NA with the NA 2006 SAP zx4 as an exception the only 5 bolt i have is my Ford built Jaguar but thats a 5 bolt flat nut


currently that crapalier was a 1995 and has blown its 3 third motor and is long since flattened all thats left is the factory 5 spoke star rims the Pinnacle 7 spoke rims sitting in their basement xD i scrapped it on my nephew after getting sick of putting in new engines and no one bothering to even check the oil every 6 months.

eventually i will be installing a 4 wheel disk system into my 06 but thats in the future im not sure if it will be 4 or 5 bolt..

also im not sure what year your pointing at but i do know for a fact my 2002 wagon, my 2003 Jaguar X-type and my 2006 Ford Focus all are 12mmx1.50's as per the gent i spoke to at Ford Performance where i buy all my Jaguar parts
I dont want get too offtopic but the 2-slow, 2.2l engine is almost bulletproof, very hard to kill even running the oil low..the 2.4L twin cam however will have a spun bearing or throw a rod if run with oil low for too long, haha
 

·
Focus Hoarder
Joined
·
3,633 Posts
I dont want get too offtopic but the 2-slow, 2.2l engine is almost bulletproof, very hard to kill even running the oil low..the 2.4L twin cam however will have a spun bearing or throw a rod if run with oil low for too long, haha
give me 5 i need to check my desktop i have a pic of the car and motor

Added

 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
^^^ Yup thats the earliest version of the LD9 twin cam, 150hp engine, easy to kill if you run the oil low..seen many do it...also seen them get up to 350,000+km if cared for and still have fairly high compression across all cylinders for the age
 

·
Focus Hoarder
Joined
·
3,633 Posts
^^^ Yup thats the earliest version of the LD9 twin cam, 150hp engine, easy to kill if you run the oil low..seen many do it...also seen them get up to 350,000+km if cared for and still have fairly high compression across all cylinders for the age
THAT was engine number 3 i installed.. that was also taken a few days before i sold it for scrap on him as it sat there for nearly a year and a half and they didnt want to fork another $1500 to drop in another engine
 
  • Like
Reactions: FFhb13

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
^^last offtopic comment I swear.. those engines were becoming so rare around here, mostly from low oil issues, junkyards were charging a premium..$1500? Come on! A buddy of mine started swapping the newer 2000+ Ecotec engines, tons of them as they were in everything, Alero sunfire cavalier, cobalts, etc etc..could only do it to OBDII so 1997+ (1996 was only half OBDII lol)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
They may be "fine", particularly if one reduces the torque so as not to exceed the deformation limits of the smaller aluminum area. Your engineering analysis notwithstanding, there is no compelling reason to reduce the lug seating area, particularly when special torque instructions to the rocket scientists at my local tire shop would then be required.

I'll play it safe and go with the bulge cone lugs.
You are aware that the extra conical area of the OEM lug nuts doesn't come in contact with the wheel face, correct?

The area on the flange floats above the wheel, therefore the conical indention in the wheel is the ONLY contact area.

Aftermarket lugs contact that entire area. Therefore the clamping force is identical.
 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
^^^ Great way of clarifying that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
[facepalm]

I provided no engineering analysis, if you look at the lugnuts only a certain portion of the conical area makes contact with the wheels and the smaller conical area of aftermarket lugnuts (designed for both aftermarket and oem wheels btw), so the engineering has already been done . . .
On my 2012 Titanium w. handling package the entire surface of the factory lug cone is in contact with the aluminum wheel, this is shown by the contact marks on both the wheel and lug. Reducing this contact area for a given lug torque increases the load on the aluminum. Whether this increased load is within the design margins of the alloy used is not (easily) knowable, and I don't intend to find out experimentally given that I can simply buy the correct, solid lug.

I have a 2001 Mercury Marauder with 20" American Racing wheels that are designed for the small-cone spline drive nuts. The recommended torque is 80ft*lbs, which is less than a factory alloy lug/wheel combination. The wheels are designed for the spline lugs, but they also caution the user not to over-torque the lugs.

So you are probably right that you can use the spline lugs on factory wheels, but I would add you likely need to reduce the torque. I'm not interested in keeping after the tire shop morons on this point for my daily driver car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
On my 2012 Titanium w. handling package the entire surface of the factory lug cone is in contact with the aluminum wheel, this is shown by the contact marks on both the wheel and lug. Reducing this contact area for a given lug torque increases the load on the aluminum. Whether this increased load is within the design margins of the alloy used is not (easily) knowable, and I don't intend to find out experimentally given that I can simply buy the correct, solid lug.

I have a 2001 Mercury Marauder with 20" American Racing wheels that are designed for the small-cone spline drive nuts. The recommended torque is 80ft*lbs, which is less than a factory alloy lug/wheel combination. The wheels are designed for the spline lugs, but they also caution the user not to over-torque the lugs.

So you are probably right that you can use the spline lugs on factory wheels, but I would add you likely need to reduce the torque. I'm not interested in keeping after the tire shop morons on this point for my daily driver car.
Your wheels only have so much contact area. The conical section of them provides the clamping force. Aftermarket lugs use that entire contact area. Any other contact you are seeing is incidental and does not contribute to clamping force.

How do I now this? I sit down the hall from the wheel and tire guys who design this stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Your wheels only have so much contact area. The conical section of them provides the clamping force. Aftermarket lugs use that entire contact area. Any other contact you are seeing is incidental and does not contribute to clamping force.

How do I now this? I sit down the hall from the wheel and tire guys who design this stuff.
That is too broad a statement. Aftermarket lugs with more or less contact area are available, including spline "tuner" lugs specifically designed (and the subject of this discussion) for smaller lug hole clearance and contact area. The factory Ford wheels are not designed like this, and utilize a larger contact area than the spline lugs.

How do I know this? I took the lugs and wheels off, compared the clearly-visible contact areas of the factory wheel/lug with the smaller splined lugs. The contact area is less than half of OEM using the splined lugs.

However, there are aftermarket lugs available with the same contact area as OEM, so you are correct that the aftermarket offers this product. But not all aftermarket lugs have a large contact area.
 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
^^^ I don't know what your OCD fetish is with lugnuts, I just removed my mutaki vanadium steel lugs and compared to oem bulge lugs which I use for my winter steelies, the mutaki has close to same amount of contact surface as oem, 2mm less of the 60degree area.. the actual area of contact with the wheel, is still only 1/3rd of entire 60 degree contact area on them and less on the oem lugs with slightly larger taper.

Torque specs vary, yes....not hard to figure out and I use a torque wrench... I use 85 to 90 ft lbs for aftermarket alloy wheels or oem alloy wheels...I use 100 ft lbs torque for steel wheels, ie: steelies. I have used 100 ft lbs torque for aftermarket lugs that are vanadium steel, I would never do this on all aluminum lugs however. (Would never buy them either, too many issues).

Also, all 5x1.5mm 60 degree conical seat have the same surface area..I have not seen one set that is less, this would be completly assinine to do that and limit the applications from many many vehicles to just a few. Go on amazon and you can search through literally 60+ brands of 5x1.5mm 60 degree lugs and they all have the same or larger contact area
 

·
Focus Hoarder
Joined
·
3,633 Posts
meh.. to me i was sick of staring at factory capped badly corroded and spun originals i just wanted something clean if they work, tighten and hold my wheels on im happy.. xD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
^^^ I don't know what your OCD fetish is with lugnuts
All I did was notice the narrow spline-drive lugs have less than half the contact area of the factory lugs. You're the one rambling on and on that it doesn't matter.

Go on amazon and you can search through literally 60+ brands of 5x1.5mm 60 degree lugs and they all have the same or larger contact area
No, they don't. They make different models with different seating areas, although they are the same angle. They make a type they call "bulge cone" that matches the larger contact area of our factory lugs. This seems simple enough, don't know why you find it so hard to comprehend. Maybe I'll post a picture of the lugs when I swap them, just got the new ones today.

You can do whatever you want with the above information, I don't care. What I posted is correct; many types of aftermarket lugs have a reduced contact area compared to the OEM Ford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
I've yet to see one that has less, granted I've only seen 2-3 brands of lug nuts. But it's not hard to find a set that works. If your aftermarket lugs don't cover the conical area of the wheel then obviously they are not to be used. But who makes lugs that small?
 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
All I did was notice the narrow spline-drive lugs have less than half the contact area of the factory lugs. You're the one rambling on and on that it doesn't matter.



No, they don't. They make different models with different seating areas, although they are the same angle. They make a type they call "bulge cone" that matches the larger contact area of our factory lugs. This seems simple enough, don't know why you find it so hard to comprehend. Maybe I'll post a picture of the lugs when I swap them, just got the new ones today.

You can do whatever you want with the above information, I don't care. What I posted is correct; many types of aftermarket lugs have a reduced contact area compared to the OEM Ford.
Im done here, can't teach stupid. [giddy]
 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
So the red line on bottom lug shows the contact area, the oem lug has the SAME contact area as aftermarket, the extra angled area on the bulge lug below the contact area in red is not making contact, therefore is not needed...there is NO extra contact with your oem lugs. That was my simple point that you keep arguing.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
So the red line on bottom lug shows the contact area, the oem lug has the SAME contact area as aftermarket, the extra angled area on the bulge lug below the contact area in red is not making contact, therefore is not needed...there is NO extra contact with your oem lugs. That was my simple point that you keep arguing.
The entire conical surface is shiny from contact with the wheel. If the wheel didn't have that much clamping area they would have used a different style nut. Any unused area of the lug seat would not be polished smooth.

You realize I have the OEM wheels on my car and can see the surface that mates with the lugs? It matches the cone.

Catch a clue, man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
The entire conical surface is shiny from contact with the wheel. If the wheel didn't have that much clamping area they would have used a different style nut. Any unused area of the lug seat would not be polished smooth.

You realize I have the OEM wheels on my car and can see the surface that mates with the lugs? It matches the cone.

Catch a clue, man.
Actually, Ford uses those nuts on SUVs as well. Same part number. The entire conical area is not used on all models. You can see the "heavy" black line just above where FFHB13 drew the red lines, that is the contact area on your Focus (and it's why it has extreme wear there).

The McGuard nut pictured has a marginally smaller conical area. But not as large as the picture suggests.
 

·
Torretto!
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
You realize I have the OEM wheels on my car and can see the surface that mates with the lugs? It matches the cone.
I still have my oem wheels, aftermarket, and 16" snow tires on steelies and I decided to use my oem bulge lugs with the steelies...just for shits and giggles I placed the oem lug in the hole and looked at the back side and the extra conical surface was not making contact, the hole would have to be smaller to do that, I did not take pics because my phone was dead.

Anyhow, don't be afraid to use aftermarket lugs, they are not less safe, eventually the metal capping on your lugs will wear and deform and you won't be able to get a lugwrench on them and will have to replace them. The Mcgard splinedrive lug in the bottom of your picture are great lugs, I have a set with locks that I've been using since about 2001 on 3 different makes of domestic car, all 5x1.5mm
 
81 - 100 of 119 Posts
Top