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1turbofocus
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What I Drive: 2000 ZX3 / 2002 SVT Turbocharged

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed
I sure like the way the car runs better on premium. For some folks all they can see is the $ at the pump, they just aren't perceptive enough to notice the improved fuel economy and performance. Fortunately Ford's knock sensing is good enough to allow folks to get away with bad gas.
I 100% agree , all mine do better on Premium ( 93 ) and even better on 95

MPG , Performance , daily driveability etc all better and datalogs back it up

Tom
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1turbofocus

I sure like the way the car runs better on premium. For some folks all they can see is the $ at the pump, they just aren't perceptive enough to notice the improved fuel economy and performance. Fortunately Ford's knock sensing is good enough to allow folks to get away with bad gas.
I 100% agree , all mine do better on Premium ( 93 ) and even better on 95

MPG , Performance , daily driveability etc all better and datalogs back it up

Tom
Thanks but none of these seem to address how the premium gas is somehow solving the transmission failures. Yes, it's good to have a smooth running engine and if premium fuel gets you there, that's all good but how that solves the myriad of DCT issues is beyond me.
 

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With out a doubt the MK3 will make better HP/TQ , better daily driving , MPG from 93 + fuels
I have seen 100`s of datalogs of the MK3 now and many wanting 87 , 91 , 93 tunes and I have seen the datalogs from 87 to 93 and there is a difference , I totally change the way the knock sensor adjust and how it plays a role in the timing and VCT etc

93 by far is the way to go if you can afford the difference from 87 , even 91 is better
I 100% agree , all mine do better on Premium ( 93 ) and even better on 95

MPG , Performance , daily driveability etc all better and datalogs back it up
Yep, I'm with IrishBrewer on this. Your quotes are only from Tom speaking to the performance of the engine. Obviously the transmission plays a role in performance, too, but nowhere did he indicate that issues with the DPS6 are mitigated by higher-octane fuel.

All that said, if running 93+ in your Focus fixes your problem - or even gives you the illusion of a fix - go for it. It's your car. And to be honest, it's appreciated that you shared with the community that you felt there was an improvement in the shuddering when you went with premium gas. Maybe it'll work for someone else, too.

Personally, I just don't buy it. I don't want to spend $35-40 to test something that, logically, has no effect. I'm certainly not going to experience enough of an improvement in fuel economy to make up for the extra $7-8 per tank that premium would cost me.

With prices where I am (70-80¢ more per gallon for 93 vs 87) - and assuming a 10% bump in fuel economy - it's still 16% more expensive to run 93 (10.1¢ per mile with 93 vs 8.7¢ per mile with 87). 93 would need to cost no more than 26¢ more per gallon - or I'd need to get around 28% better fuel economy - to make it equitable. Neither of those are going to happen and so without any evidence (other than butt dyno) that premium is in any way better for my car or completely fixes the DPS6, it's simply not worth it.
 

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Higher octane fuel will in no way fix the issues of this transmission. If it were that easy, Ford Corp would communicate this to owners. This would completely take them off the hook and provide a resolution to a seven year headache. Really, think about it.
 

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And to add, even if we were to focus on engine performance, please understand what higher octane potentially does during the combustion cycle and then apply that to THIS motors cylinder head, combustion, timing events, load/demand, A/F ratio, knock sensor, and ultimately the factory PCM strategy to name a few. Not going to spell it out so do your research. A higher octane rating is NOT a fix for this tranny lol
 

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I have a 2018. Drove for a year and started to get shudder between 1 and 2. Had the weird noise when coming to stops and delays getting back up to speed when in traffic, and it slows and speeds back up.
I switched to 93 octane, and after 4 tanks car was ABSOLUTY PERFECT. We are getting 100 degree temps here right now and the car drives perfect.
My opinion with this is the engine needs more power to run dct, and without it causes trans to shift poorly.
With 93 it holds gears better and no more noises coming to stop. Pickup is DRAMTICALLY improved . It drives as good as any traditional automatic. This is on the 2018 and I cannot speak to older versions, but this was the fix for my car.
My brother in law has a new 2018 also and is starting to have same symptoms and he is going to try 93 also, so we will see if it improves his car too.
I have a '17 SEL and based on earlier threads here I did the same when I started to notice some odd behavior at under 1,000 miles. I removed the silencer, added 93 octane and have had zero issues now coming up on 62,000 miles. I drive 120 miles round trip over mountains and through lots of rush hour traffic. I think it is a unicorn, or it will curse me and blow up this afternoon on the way home.
 

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I have a '17 SEL and based on earlier threads here I did the same when I started to notice some odd behavior at under 1,000 miles. I removed the silencer, added 93 octane and have had zero issues now coming up on 62,000 miles. I drive 120 miles round trip over mountains and through lots of rush hour traffic. I think it is a unicorn, or it will curse me and blow up this afternoon on the way home.



What do you mean, you removed the silencer?



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Like I said in my 1st post, I probably take some crap here. It works for me, and just wanted to let people know it reduces shudder and car performs much better.
You should just try it for yourself.
If it doesn't work for you, go back to regular gas. It will not hurt your car.
 

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Just 1 more thing. Page 130 2018 Ford Focus manual---For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing (page 182).
 

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Like I said in my 1st post, I probably take some crap here. It works for me, and just wanted to let people know it reduces shudder and car performs much better.
You should just try it for yourself.
If it doesn't work for you, go back to regular gas. It will not hurt your car.


Oh I’m definitely going to try the 91 & report back. Unfortunately I have a full tank of 87 in the car right now so it’s gonna be two weeks, but you’ve got me curious now. I thought about picking up some Lucas Octane Booster & throwing it into that 87? But I’ll do a few tanks of 91 & see if the shudder on acceleration improves.



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Just 1 more thing. Page 130 2018 Ford Focus manual---For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing (page 182).
No one has argued against higher-octane fuel for performance reasons. All anyone - myself included - is saying is that using 91+ cannot fix issues with the DPS6. It doesn't work like that.

Now, will your car feel different? Probably! Will it get better fuel economy? Maybe! Will it hurt to try? Of course not.

I'm just suggesting that you don't delude yourself into thinking that something that simply cannot fix the DPS6 is actually fixing it. If it makes you feel better, you do you. It's your money.
 

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No one has argued against higher-octane fuel for performance reasons. All anyone - myself included - is saying is that using 91+ cannot fix issues with the DPS6. It doesn't work like that.

Now, will your car feel different? Probably! Will it get better fuel economy? Maybe! Will it hurt to try? Of course not.

I'm just suggesting that you don't delude yourself into thinking that something that simply cannot fix the DPS6 is actually fixing it. If it makes you feel better, you do you. It's your money.
Sorry, but it did. No shudder here.
 

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No one has argued against higher-octane fuel for performance reasons. All anyone - myself included - is saying is that using 91+ cannot fix issues with the DPS6. It doesn't work like that.



Now, will your car feel different? Probably! Will it get better fuel economy? Maybe! Will it hurt to try? Of course not.



I'm just suggesting that you don't delude yourself into thinking that something that simply cannot fix the DPS6 is actually fixing it. If it makes you feel better, you do you. It's your money.




I can’t speak for other 2012-2016 Focus DCT owners, only for myself & if premium fuel eliminates shudder & hesitation from a start/stop, then it’s worth it. I understand that the transmission is a manual & shifting points will be odd, however shuddering & hesitation on acceleration is what I’d like to eliminate. So we have two DCT owners saying that they’re noticed significant improvements with higher octane, so I’m going to do the same & see for myself. I’m not concerned at all about paying 20 cents more every other week, still gonna get 30+ mpg, it’s not like I’d be loosing any such as buying an ST.

After all, the purpose of an aftermarket tune is to improve performance, correct? Maybe a more simple route would be just to run premium fuel.



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I can’t speak for other 2012-2016 Focus DCT owners, only for myself & if premium fuel eliminates shudder & hesitation from a start/stop, then it’s worth it. I understand that the transmission is a manual & shifting points will be odd, however shuddering & hesitation on acceleration is what I’d like to eliminate. So we have two DCT owners saying that they’re noticed significant improvements with higher octane, so I’m going to do the same & see for myself. I’m not concerned at all about paying 20 cents more every other week, still gonna get 30+ mpg, it’s not like I’d be loosing any such as buying an ST.

After all, the purpose of an aftermarket tune is to improve performance, correct? Maybe a more simple route would be just to run premium fuel.
There are also Focus owners saying the "ground mod" fixed their shudder. Did it fix yours?

Look, I think you should try it out! Heck, if it's only $0.20 more per gallon, I'd recommend you run 93 forever. As I broke down in an earlier post, fuel savings might actually make it cheaper than running 87. Report back and let us know if the Ford engineers just happened to miss the simple fix to one of the most expensive defects in recent Ford history [thumb]

I'm 100% on board with trying something non-destructive to fix the shudder coming from the DPS6. I'm just cautioning anyone else reading this that there is no way running premium will in fact fix your transmission and even if your car performs better, the damage being done as a result of a poor design with poor software is still being done since the fuel you use doesn't fix either of those problems.
 

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Just 1 more thing. Page 130 2018 Ford Focus manual---For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing (page 182).
For what it's worth, the language is different in the 2012 manual is different:

Octane recommendations

Your vehicle is designed to use
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a
pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.
Some stations offer fuels posted as
“Regular” with an octane rating
below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with octane levels
below 87 are not recommended. Premium fuel will provide improved
performance.​
 

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Can someone fill me in on a few details on our na (not eco-boost) engines?

I just searched and found that my engine has a compression ratio of 12:1? If thats true, that is pretty high as far as na engines go, right?

And to use 87 fuel the computer is using a knock sensor to adjust the timing. Either a cheap piezo, or a more complicated system that is measuring resistance of the spark plug gap...

From what I've read, the computer would push the timing out until it senses a knock, and then back it off a bit to find the optimum timing for each cylinder. Using 87 fuel, the computer is limited in how far it can advance the timing before it starts knocking. And using 91+ it can advance further, and gain some HP and efficiency?

Is my understanding of the octane issue accurate? I'm staying out of how this may or may not relate to DCT performance :) Just want to know if I'm right on the engine side.
 

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It is true that premium fuel will not hurt your car, though whether it can reasonably help transmission shudder is another matter.

The largest advantage to premium fuel is that it allows greater spark advance. In fact the defining characteristic of octane rating is how much spark advance it can tolerate before generating knock. At low RPM where clutch shudder typically happens, it's unlikely that the ECU is going to increase spark advance. High octane fuel in a car set up for regular fuel shouldn't make a difference except possibly at high RPM. If it does, it means that the regular engine tune is kind of crappy.
 

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High octane fuel in a car set up for regular fuel shouldn't make a difference except possibly at high RPM.
I think that (at least part of) the argument is that the Focus is the opposite: a car set up for premium that will accept regular. I can buy that, as no one purchasing a Focus would expect to need premium fuel.

Still, the rest of your explanation makes sense as it pertains to the DPS6, and just goes to back up the idea that using premium doesn't magically fix the problems inherent to the DPS6.

I'm sure Ford would love to come back to consumers and say they just need to put in high-octane fuel.
 
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