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I have a 2014 DCT I bought in April I friggin love it! No issues yet, however you really must learn to drive it like a manual to make it act right. If you have never had a manual I would suggest a nice long test drive to see if you will like the feel of it, it is much more direct than your average slush box auto.
This is spot on. I had a '12 SEL DCT and it was a huge change from a regular auto. Some people don't like it because it doesn't drive like their old standard auto. But this is because they don't understand what the DCT is and how it acts.
 
This is spot on. I had a '12 SEL DCT and it was a huge change from a regular auto. Some people don't like it because it doesn't drive like their old standard auto. But this is because they don't understand what the DCT is and how it acts.
I see this parroted around a lot on this forum and I'm kind of tired of seeing it. I mean, don't you think whoever is driving the car would notice nuances and try to find optimal driving conditions? Even if you have no idea what transmission you have, you adapt to how your vehicle behaves. You're probably right about some, but without any substance behind the post, all this is saying is "ford, don't worry about it, the dumb consumer is just blaming you" - believe me, I know how a manual transmission works and drives. I know how a DCT should feel. I know how OTHER focus' DCTs feel.

IMO, generalizations like this minimize the issues that people are having with their transmissions.

Maybe I'm being salty and maybe you're right, but even if you were, if the majority of people who buy your cars can't figure out how to use your automated transmission efficiently, regardless of whether or not they're dumb as rocks and it's more efficient if used correctly, you put out a bad transmission for your target audience. Us backwoods dumb uhhmuricans can't handle it, then don't try selling us these fancy automagical shifty boxamajiggers, cause when we can't figure it out we're going to want our money back.

Then again, I don't have the stats either. Millions were sold, right? The vocal minority does not make the majority. I just wish I didn't have to be a part of that minority.
 
Looking at the sales figures for the Foci this year, it doesn't look like they've suffered too much on the volume side. It was the 15th best selling vehicle in the US for 2014. It is doing much better than the previous generation Focus for sure.

2010 - 172,421
2011 - 175,717
2012 - 245,992
2013 - 234,570
2014 - 219,634

I drove a Corolla S+ with a CVT transmission for a couple of weeks. It was so boring, and slow! I think 0-60 was somewhere around 10 seconds, even with 'Sport' mode engaged, which makes it behave like a more traditional auto gearbox with shift points. The thing even had paddle shifters! [rofl]

The more I drive the Focus, the more I love it. The DCT behaves exactly how I would expect it to. I actually like the transmission better than the wet dual-clutch gearbox in the Jetta TDI that I drove, plus I don't have to do the $800 fluid changes every 40k that the DSG required. I would've gotten the 5-speed if my wife knew how to drive them. She refuses to learn. [scream] So I think it's a good compromise.

I have about 2200 miles on my car right now, no shuddering/slipping and no problems going slow through parking lots. I would not get a Focus with a sunroof again, the headroom is a little tight for me since I'm 6'4". It just makes it feel cozy. [hihi]
 
I see this parroted around a lot on this forum and I'm kind of tired of seeing it. I mean, don't you think whoever is driving the car would notice nuances and try to find optimal driving conditions? Even if you have no idea what transmission you have, you adapt to how your vehicle behaves. You're probably right about some, but without any substance behind the post, all this is saying is "ford, don't worry about it, the dumb consumer is just blaming you" - believe me, I know how a manual transmission works and drives. I know how a DCT should feel. I know how OTHER focus' DCTs feel.

IMO, generalizations like this minimize the issues that people are having with their transmissions.

Maybe I'm being salty and maybe you're right, but even if you were, if the majority of people who buy your cars can't figure out how to use your automated transmission efficiently, regardless of whether or not they're dumb as rocks and it's more efficient if used correctly, you put out a bad transmission for your target audience. Us backwoods dumb uhhmuricans can't handle it, then don't try selling us these fancy automagical shifty boxamajiggers, cause when we can't figure it out we're going to want our money back.

Then again, I don't have the stats either. Millions were sold, right? The vocal minority does not make the majority. I just wish I didn't have to be a part of that minority.
What I'm finding is that excellent to expert drivers (in which group I suspect you belong) seem to like the DCT less than us lesser drivers.

Those that can "be one" with a manual transmission equipped vehicle and know how to heel and toe, double clutch, match rpms, get a manual around a road circuit virtually flawlessly (generally) won't like the DCT. Versus us drivers that simply know how to depress a clutch pedal, get the shifter from one gear to the next with grinding, release the clutch pedal.

No way the DCT can match a skilled manual transmission driver. But for the majority of us we love the DCT. And Ford-Getrag probably knew the enthusiast wouldn't like the DCT, but then how great is the market for an enthusiast non-ST DCT equipped Focus?

That said, all bets are off on a DCT that is failing due to seals, chattering clutch assembly, hyper-cycling actuators, etc. Those transaxles aren't within the "driving specifications" / feel / normal operation intended by Ford-Getrag.

If you're an enthusiast, I'd say you have a much lesser chance of liking Ford's DCT when operating as designed than if you weren't.
 
No way the DCT can match a skilled manual transmission driver.
A manual transmission operator probably could not match the speed of a DCT if it is operating correctly. (Big if) The DCT already has the next gear cued up and ready to go, something a manual driver can't do. Likewise, if the DCT is operating perfectly, the clutch engagement will likely be smoother and more efficient.

I have been driving stick for years and I still occasionally snap the necks of my passengers when I shift but that's half the fun of driving a manual.
 
A manual transmission operator probably could not match the speed of a DCT if it is operating correctly. (Big if) The DCT already has the next gear cued up and ready to go, something a manual driver can't do. Likewise, if the DCT is operating perfectly, the clutch engagement will likely be smoother and more efficient.

I have been driving stick for years and I still occasionally snap the necks of my passengers when I shift but that's half the fun of driving a manual.
I agree that I don't think any human can shift a manual as fast as the DCT when the clutch goes from fully engaged to disengaged to fully engaged for a shift.

However, when in S mode, hitting + or - causes enough of a delay that I think many humans could execute the shift to the changed gear in a manual sooner. Granted, the actual changing of gear is going to be quicker (IMO) in the DCT, but the delay kills it for effective precision timed shifting scenarios.

Now, if someone could get skilled enough to shift the DCT via the +/- button and account for the delay from command request to execution then yes.

For example, if driver knows it's going to take say 0.8 seconds from the time they press the button to the time the shift is completed, and press the button 0.8 seconds ahead of time, then that would be great.

But I think the DCT has widely varying times between request and execution. One time I press the button, it takes 1.3 seconds, next time, 1.9 seconds, next time 0.6 seconds (all examples -- I've never attempted to measure), could be quite frustrating for someone trying to time their shifts.
 
I think the DCT can (mechanically) shift faster than a person but I use sport mode but do not manual shift with the +/- switch. It second guesses you too much and there is a delay. This discussion brings me back to 70's when pro stock drag racers switched to the Lenco transmissions and it took the advantage away from master 4 speed shifters like Ronnie Sox and Herb McCandles(Sp?).
 
I see this parroted around a lot on this forum and I'm kind of tired of seeing it. I mean, don't you think whoever is driving the car would notice nuances and try to find optimal driving conditions? Even if you have no idea what transmission you have, you adapt to how your vehicle behaves. You're probably right about some, but without any substance behind the post, all this is saying is "ford, don't worry about it, the dumb consumer is just blaming you" - believe me, I know how a manual transmission works and drives. I know how a DCT should feel. I know how OTHER focus' DCTs feel.

IMO, generalizations like this minimize the issues that people are having with their transmissions.

Maybe I'm being salty and maybe you're right, but even if you were, if the majority of people who buy your cars can't figure out how to use your automated transmission efficiently, regardless of whether or not they're dumb as rocks and it's more efficient if used correctly, you put out a bad transmission for your target audience. Us backwoods dumb uhhmuricans can't handle it, then don't try selling us these fancy automagical shifty boxamajiggers, cause when we can't figure it out we're going to want our money back.

Then again, I don't have the stats either. Millions were sold, right? The vocal minority does not make the majority. I just wish I didn't have to be a part of that minority.
Yeah you came off "salty" or, as I would call it, "twat-ish." I went from owning a Dokato (automatic) to a '12 DCT; I didn't know how to drive a stick at the time and had never really been in a car that was a manual. I knew the concept but not the IRL feel that a manual has. So going to a DCT was a lot different and if I hadn't already done research on the DCT I might have brought the car back to the dealer. I let my girlfriend's dad drive it and he got out and the first thing he said was "It's nice but I think it has something wrong with it's transmission." I had to explain to him that it was a DCT and what that meant. The average non car enthusiast won't know what it is. While Ford obviously has issues with the DCT, I'm not denying that, don't give the consumer too much credit. How many people do you think did their research on the DCT before buying it? And remember that we are talking about American consumers who are the same people that have a problem with understanding the left lane is for passing, not cruising.

And just to clear things up, I didn't generalize. I said some people don't like it because they don't understand it, not all people.
 
Yeah you came off "salty" or, as I would call it, "twat-ish." I went from owning a Dokato (automatic) to a '12 DCT; I didn't know how to drive a stick at the time and had never really been in a car that was a manual. I knew the concept but not the IRL feel that a manual has. So going to a DCT was a lot different and if I hadn't already done research on the DCT I might have brought the car back to the dealer. I let my girlfriend's dad drive it and he got out and the first thing he said was "It's nice but I think it has something wrong with it's transmission." I had to explain to him that it was a DCT and what that meant. The average non car enthusiast won't know what it is. While Ford obviously has issues with the DCT, I'm not denying that, don't give the consumer too much credit. How many people do you think did their research on the DCT before buying it? And remember that we are talking about American consumers who are the same people that have a problem with understanding the left lane is for passing, not cruising.

And just to clear things up, I didn't generalize. I said some people don't like it because they don't understand it, not all people.


You're still not getting my point which is that there is a difference between people who do not know the characteristics of a DCT and a traditional automatic and people who are having legitimate problems that their dealers (and Ford) are not helping them with and that your post is glossing over the latter group.

Your post, to me, reads "some people don't know how to drive with the transmission they have, and the rest have no problems" - maybe that's not what you intended it to sound like but you must see how this can be misconstrued, especially over the internet with no tonal context or conversational follow-up. To a new buyer who is doing their research, they will read this (just as I did in the past before I bought mine) and think "bleh, I've driven these types of transmissions before, I know how a manual feels too, they're just being whiney" and end up with a car they don't enjoy. That's how I felt walking into that dealership. I read complaints. I did my homework. It didn't work for me because I misunderstood the magnitude of the problem.

I test drove mine for around half an hour. I went through lights, on a clearish highway, in a parking lot (walmart to be exact) and back roads with stop signs on the way back. It felt good when it was new. It was what I expected. It is not that way now. I even drove a used Focus before I bought it with 49,000 miles on it to make sure that it was going to be ok and that the characteristics that I read about were truly written by those who were not having real problems, but rather were having difficulty coping with the different driving style required.

I have nothing against you and if you want to call me a twat for trying to bring more light to a bad situation, go ahead. Re-read my post and try to remember that the tone is not heavy, though over the internet it may read that way. At the very minimum I want to put at least a shadow of doubt into new buyers so that they further look into these issues before they do something they'll regret.

Hopefully this relieves some of the hostility here.
 
You're still not getting my point which is that there is a difference between people who do not know the characteristics of a DCT and a traditional automatic and people who are having legitimate problems that their dealers (and Ford) are not helping them with and that your post is glossing over the latter group.
I think this quote summarizes the problem still lingering with the Focus perfectly: I believe there are legitimate, outstanding issues with some folks with their transmission that is not being adequately addressed from the owners' point of view. It may not be a majority of owners, but its still out there. I wonder how the reaction from Ford would have been if the new F-150 had transmission problems?
 
Too Picky?

Whatever the problem is with the double clutch transmission maybe it is not all that bad and people are being too picky. Long time ago I had a Oldsmobile with 4 speed automatic transmission that sometimes jerked when shifting gears. Never got it fixed. I drove it for 120,000 miles before I sold it. I liked the car well enough and it met my needs while I had it so I just ignored the issue. Should I have fixed it or sold it earlier? Maybe, but the point is it did not progress to a bigger issue. I think I read on this forum that the dct is rated by Ford for 150,000 miles. There may be some jerking during shifting but I believe Ford when they say it is made to last that many miles. How do I like my 2012 Ford Focus SEL hatchback? I like it a lot. I like how quick it feels. I had the clutches and reprograming done once. Six months later I would again have an occasional jerk. It is better with the new clutches. Before the extended warranty on the transmission runs out I will have Ford check out the transmission again. But I am happy with the car. I got 40 mpg on a vacation last summer. I like the quickness.
To me its worth it.
 
Whatever the problem is with the double clutch transmission maybe it is not all that bad and people are being too picky.
Are people being "too picky" when they have extreme shuddering off the line that causes passengers to look at each other in disbelief or when there's a complete loss in power when flooring it to get across traffic lanes? I think not.

(Both issues I believed have been largely fixed for MY14 by the way).
 
Are people being "too picky" when they have extreme shuddering off the line that causes passengers to look at each other in disbelief or when there's a complete loss in power when flooring it to get across traffic lanes? I think not.

(Both issues I believed have been largely fixed for MY14 by the way).
In this / your example, absolutely not. But remember there are those "just looking" for anything to blame on the DCT.

I don't think anyone is diminishing clutch chatter that will loosen your teeth fillings.
 
In this / your example, absolutely not. But remember there are those "just looking" for anything to blame on the DCT.

I don't think anyone is diminishing clutch chatter that will loosen your teeth fillings.
Yes I know many really are being too picky. But I don't like the characterization that all "haters" are being too picky.
 
What I'm finding is that excellent to expert drivers (in which group I suspect you belong) seem to like the DCT less than us lesser drivers.

Those that can "be one" with a manual transmission equipped vehicle and know how to heel and toe, double clutch, match rpms, get a manual around a road circuit virtually flawlessly (generally) won't like the DCT. Versus us drivers that simply know how to depress a clutch pedal, get the shifter from one gear to the next with grinding, release the clutch pedal.

No way the DCT can match a skilled manual transmission driver. But for the majority of us we love the DCT. And Ford-Getrag probably knew the enthusiast wouldn't like the DCT, but then how great is the market for an enthusiast non-ST DCT equipped Focus?

That said, all bets are off on a DCT that is failing due to seals, chattering clutch assembly, hyper-cycling actuators, etc. Those transaxles aren't within the "driving specifications" / feel / normal operation intended by Ford-Getrag.

If you're an enthusiast, I'd say you have a much lesser chance of liking Ford's DCT when operating as designed than if you weren't.
When mine was running well, I found that when you stepped on it, a manual shifting driver would have been challenged to shift as fast as the DCT did. I've owned 20 cars in my 45 years driving and when running well, the focus was hands down the quickest, sportiest economy car I ever owned.
 
I've owned my SE for about 2 years now. When I bought the car I knew nothing about the DCT tranny. Most of the time the car drives like any 'regular' automatic. I love to floor this car and it has always shifted perfectly. Maybe that's what it likes. A clear indication of what the driver wants! BTW I do very little city or stop and go driving which seems to be the area where the DCT has issues. All this trouble has me concerned for the long haul. I keep asking myself: should I buy a manual Focus?
 
You're still not getting my point which is that there is a difference between people who do not know the characteristics of a DCT and a traditional automatic and people who are having legitimate problems that their dealers (and Ford) are not helping them with and that your post is glossing over the latter group.

Your post, to me, reads "some people don't know how to drive with the transmission they have, and the rest have no problems" - maybe that's not what you intended it to sound like but you must see how this can be misconstrued, especially over the internet with no tonal context or conversational follow-up. To a new buyer who is doing their research, they will read this (just as I did in the past before I bought mine) and think "bleh, I've driven these types of transmissions before, I know how a manual feels too, they're just being whiney" and end up with a car they don't enjoy. That's how I felt walking into that dealership. I read complaints. I did my homework. It didn't work for me because I misunderstood the magnitude of the problem.

I test drove mine for around half an hour. I went through lights, on a clearish highway, in a parking lot (walmart to be exact) and back roads with stop signs on the way back. It felt good when it was new. It was what I expected. It is not that way now. I even drove a used Focus before I bought it with 49,000 miles on it to make sure that it was going to be ok and that the characteristics that I read about were truly written by those who were not having real problems, but rather were having difficulty coping with the different driving style required.

I have nothing against you and if you want to call me a twat for trying to bring more light to a bad situation, go ahead. Re-read my post and try to remember that the tone is not heavy, though over the internet it may read that way. At the very minimum I want to put at least a shadow of doubt into new buyers so that they further look into these issues before they do something they'll regret.

Hopefully this relieves some of the hostility here.
Alright lets get something straight, my original post was not meant to gloss over the ones that are having trouble (I believe I stated that I acknowledge the problems in my reply to you) and that your first reply to me came across dickish which is why I responded rather hostile-ish. Secondly, your first reply to me sounded as if you thought the DCT was a complete failure. I think what we have hear is a breakdown in communication and it didn't help that I had a bad day at work when I first replied to you.

So I think we can both agree that neither one of us were satisfied with the DCT (though I did not have any mechanical issues with it, I just wanted to bang out the gears myself) and that the 5Spd is what we preferred.

While not perfect by no means, I do think the DCT is worth looking into for buyers and that they should seriously consider it while also paying attention to the ongoing problems that it seems to be having.

Finally, I would like to apologize for the way I might have come across in any of my previous posts; like you said, you can't hear the tone of a sentence through the internet.
 
I've owned my SE for about 2 years now. When I bought the car I knew nothing about the DCT tranny. Most of the time the car drives like any 'regular' automatic. I love to floor this car and it has always shifted perfectly. Maybe that's what it likes. A clear indication of what the driver wants! BTW I do very little city or stop and go driving which seems to be the area where the DCT has issues. All this trouble has me concerned for the long haul. I keep asking myself: should I buy a manual Focus?
You might be on to something. When I had my DCT it loved to red line and be driven hard. I gave it to my mom and when I ride with her she takes it easy and I notice a little more shuddering. Most of it was eliminated with the firm ware update.

P.S. -- you should buy a manual;)
 
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