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REVOLT.BUILD.RISE
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Yea I agree vs. M3 is repair charges. Other than that the M3 would be better in everyway. I'm courious on the subi though. Yea the civic si don't have a chance.
 

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I'm courious on the subi though.
I fully expect the ST to be able to outrun a WRX from a roll, and also outhandle it. Here's the numbers:

ST:
252 @ 5,500 rpm
270 @ 2,500 rpm
Curb Weight = ~3250

WRX:
265 @ 6,000 rpm
244 @ 4,000 rpm
Curb Weight = ~3208

So the ST gives up 13 HP and about 50 lbs, but has 26 more "torques" (term stolen from Jeremy Clarkson). From what we've seen of the power curves, the torque arrives much earlier in the ST and stays flat throughout the powerband. And the ST won't have the drivetrain losses that the AWD WRX has. Many magazines have already commented on how neutral and awesome the ST handles, while I've heard lots of talk of the WRX liking to understeer.

So, IMO, ST > WRX.
 

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What is all this racing from a roll stuff,that was what the ricer boys did back in the late '90s since they couldn't get traction at the strip and racing from a roll takes zero skill.

Yes,it will be beat a WRX from a roll but it will need mods to beat one at the strip and we'll see the numbers from the road courses but I expect the ST to surprise some people but some early testers are complaining about the lack of a proper LSD. Should be hitting dealers next week.

I think if people drove both the ST and a WRX back to back on a road course we'd see some very different observations.
 

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What is all this racing from a roll stuff,that was what the ricer boys did back in the late '90s since they couldn't get traction at the strip and racing from a roll takes zero skill.

Yes,it will be beat a WRX from a roll but it will need mods to beat one at the strip and we'll see the numbers from the road courses but I expect the ST to surprise some people but some early testers are complaining about the lack of a proper LSD. Should be hitting dealers next week.

I think if people drove both the ST and a WRX back to back on a road course we'd see some very different observations.
The only reason that I mentioned going from a roll is that the WRX will obviously have a distinct advantage from a stop. Going from a roll equalizes the cars and focuses the race on raw power (and weight/gearing/shifting skills of course), and not drivetrain type.

I do agree with you about the LSD issue, there are some reviewers that say the electronic diff does a fine job, while others still pine the performance benefits of a true LSD. I myself would prefer a true LSD, but Ford has made it clear that that would result in increased weight and cost, and whether or not those increases are worth it I cannot say.

Also, apparantly owners in Michigan are starting to get them in already.
http://fordstnation.com/top-stories/1354-my-st-has-arrived-kinda.html
 

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That clip is obviously meant for lovers of the "Fast & Furious" movies.

It's a shame that Ford's advertising / marketing for the ST is directed toward teenage boys (applies to USA only).
 

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Racing from a roll is too equal and would produce the same result over and over so the suspense is short lived and thus IMO takes the fun out of it unlike at the strip if you have equal cars then it boils down to the drivers and has bigger bragging rigth instwead of impromptu (and illegal) road racing and at much higher speeds than a 1/4 mile race.

I agree the ad is aimed at the Ford fanboy crowd and we'll see how the car does in the real world real soon. I really like the car so I hope it's numbers live up to the hype. I think 0-60 times under 6 seconds and 1/4 mile times in the low 14s.
 

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I think if people drove both the ST and a WRX back to back on a road course we'd see some very different observations.
While shopping I test drove the WRX with a factory tuned exhaust on it. I can say that the torque on that car is lacking and the HP is only generated in the 2k band where the turbo is in boost. To get any performance you need to carefully manage the gears otherwise it's not really fast. I bought the ST3 because it delivers torque everywhere and it has some boost to round out the top. I think in real world driving (not track racing) the ST will typically be noticeably faster.
because it's just easier to drive.

In full race conditions the Subaru does offer the all wheel drive which can make drifting the car much more controllable but AWD vs FWD is a long standing debate which mostly comes down to driver skill unless the pavement is very wet/slippery. My other car is P28 Range Rover which has AWD. I can and do drive it very aggressively in terrible conditions because I know it will hook up.
 
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