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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had my tune for a while, and I've put off datalogging anything until I get a wideband installed. Well, I picked up an AEM wideband A/F and just started researching what I would have to do to install it. Basically, it would take either a bunch of custom fab work or a new header, which isn't an option for me (I'm in CA). So, can I datalog my car to get a better tune without the wideband? I understand it wouldn't be as good, but it's looking like I don't really have any other options.
 

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Not sure what custom work would be needed , drill a hole and weld in a bung , this takes about 15-30 Min and most muffler shops do it for about 20-30.00 then screw in your o2 and wire it up

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've heard from a number of people that welding in a bung is only possible if you remove the manifold, and that the labor to do that would be very expensive.

Back to my question, though. Is it still possible to datalog without a wideband?
 

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if you dont have anything custom or boost then yes
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Any reputable muffler shop can weld in a bung.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
if you dont have anything custom or boost then yes
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Would you consider bolt-ons "custom?" I currently have a CAI, and plan on adding a cat back and throttle body in the future.

Any reputable muffler shop can weld in a bung.
I don't doubt that they can, but I've heard from people that the labor required costs a lot, because they have to remove the exhaust manifold from the car first.
 

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Would you consider bolt-ons "custom?" I currently have a CAI, and plan on adding a cat back and throttle body in the future.
bolt-ons are okay. I mean custom intakes/manifolds ect. Tom is an amazing tuner and has my car running flawlessly after a few data-logs
 

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Keep in mind he's talking about adding a bung to the factory manifold, which would be a PITA W/O having it off the car.

Look at the header install how-to, remove the manifold and bring it in and have a bung welded on. Mark where you want it before hand and be sure to allow clearance for the sensor.
More than likely the only good spot will be right under the EGR tube. Passenger side the power steering pump is probably in the way. To the engine side the valvecover is in the way. Out the front is just ugly.
^For a zetec that is.

Duratec should be easier I'd think.


The other option, which is the best option IMO, is to remove the factory front O2 and put the WBO2 there. Then use the analog output of the AEM to run the ECU.
The purpose of the analog is to simulate a stock narrow band sensor. It works perfectly fine, you don't have to do any fab work, you don't have to remove the manifold ... it's a win win.
 

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The wide band as a narrow band means that when you have any issues that doesnt look right they you will be changing the wide band o2 to eliminate the issues or going back to stock o2
I did the wide/narrow band back in 2002 and just found it not worth it and I havent seen much changes in the wide band o2

Yes I know some do it and havent had many/any issues so to each there own

Tom
 

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I kinda think some who do have issues running that way (which is how I'm running) has to do with the controller and not so much the sensor. I've seen chatter about Innovative's analog being unreliable over time, a little about AEM and very little about PLX. But I'd bet a lot of that chatter has do do with the number of each on the market. PLX seems to be the least sold and is what I'm running.

So far the sensor is holding up just fine. Same sensor it came with and it's been on the car for ~10,000 miles, ~6,000 on E-85.

I just don't see the point of spending $300 on a fancy flashy light show if you're not going to use it to full potential.
I mean if you see it go way lean it's already too late. The ECU can respond much faster than your right foot, so may as well let it try to save the engine.
 

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I kinda think some who do have issues running that way (which is how I'm running) has to do with the controller and not so much the sensor. I've seen chatter about Innovative's analog being unreliable over time, a little about AEM and very little about PLX. But I'd bet a lot of that chatter has do do with the number of each on the market. PLX seems to be the least sold and is what I'm running.

So far the sensor is holding up just fine. Same sensor it came with and it's been on the car for ~10,000 miles, ~6,000 on E-85.

I just don't see the point of spending $300 on a fancy flashy light show if you're not going to use it to full potential.
I mean if you see it go way lean it's already too late. The ECU can respond much faster than your right foot, so may as well let it try to save the engine.
Some other issues I ran into was the calibrations between stock narrow bands and wide band on the narrow band side were not the same , have you seen anything about that , Its been 10 years sence I did this and I am sure some things have changed

Tom
 

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I haven't on mine. It seems to be pretty dead on vs factory.

I think it's the Innovative products that you can adjust the analog output. They've some program that comes with the stuff. I've never used it but I figure if the WBO2 is of a tad you could adjust it that way, basically just move the switchover point.

AEM's is on page 8-9 of the install instructions --> http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images/Products/Installation Instructions 30-4100.pdf

Innovatives can be changed through Log Works and is Analog #2 --> http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/MTX-L_Manual_1.1.pdf

PLX's is factory set and not adjustable:

 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So what would you guys suggest, hooking up the analog from the AEM and replacing the top O2 sensor, or going the "correct" route and taking out the manifold. Would I need to replace the gaskets when I do that?

By the way, thank you very much to everyone who has provided input so far.
 

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My feeling is to pull the manifold and weld a bung in. But that is only because you're running the AEM unit, which I think is not the best product for the money. Up side is they are popular and you can get help easily if there are problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So you're saying I would be good if I had the $280 set shown here? Could I even get the $210 sensor and module and another gauge? http://www.plxdevices.com/wideband.html

With that, would I be able to just remove the stock O2 sensor before the mani-cat and throw the new one in there? I'd be willing to sell my BNIB AEM wideband and save up a little for that.


3rd option: I don't really need a gauge, do I? Can't I just have the wideband O2 and module and plug that into my XCal to datalog?
 

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No you need the gauge it is as important for you to be watching the air fuel at WOT as it is to tune with it

My opinion would be to stick with the AEM they work great and the o2 is cheap to replace , work out installing a bung

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Tom, I guess I'll get cracking on that. Hopefully you'll be hearing from me before the summer is over about datalogging and an updated tune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Any pictures or layouts of where I need to have them put the bung in? I would prefer a picture from someone who has already done it.
 
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