cam gear?
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
No
Tom
Tom
I have to disagree with Tom on this one. He has repeatedly said there is no HP to be had with the gear....and I'm not disbelieving him. But, that is at WOT on the dyno. At part throttle out on the road, my car changed...in a good way...how it drives with the gear set @ -4 degrees. Tried all settings from +6 to -6 and it feels the best at -4.
This is un-scientific for sure, but the engine sure feels like it has more torque and comes alive the best with the exhaust retarded a bit.
Would I pay $250 for a gear? Probably not. I got mine a few years ago from CFM for around $85 and it was WELL worth the investment. If you are looking only for dyno #'s then Tom is most probably correct. If you are looking for a bit more driveability, then a gear...properly adjusted...can provide benefits.
This is un-scientific for sure, but the engine sure feels like it has more torque and comes alive the best with the exhaust retarded a bit.
Would I pay $250 for a gear? Probably not. I got mine a few years ago from CFM for around $85 and it was WELL worth the investment. If you are looking only for dyno #'s then Tom is most probably correct. If you are looking for a bit more driveability, then a gear...properly adjusted...can provide benefits.
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
Oooo come on , are you saying that the gears only gained performance at 2200 or below but didnt do anything for 2300 or on ,
What diff. does WOT have to do with it if there is a gain below 2000 in part throttle driving then that same gain will be there from 2100 and on in WOT , I start my runs at 2000 so if its there it will show
If you had tested the stock gears first you would know your true gains
As for you saying + this or - that for gear settings there is no cam pin so everyone that installs cam gears will have a diff setting , yours at -4 just means when installing your gears you were off on the installation by -4
Tom
What diff. does WOT have to do with it if there is a gain below 2000 in part throttle driving then that same gain will be there from 2100 and on in WOT , I start my runs at 2000 so if its there it will show
If you had tested the stock gears first you would know your true gains
As for you saying + this or - that for gear settings there is no cam pin so everyone that installs cam gears will have a diff setting , yours at -4 just means when installing your gears you were off on the installation by -4
Tom
What diff does WOT have to do with it? Well.....what are we actually doing when we move the exhaust cam timing around? Answer is balancing the opening/closing to the exhaust pressures in the system for best cyl filling.
Change the exhaust with low restriction cat or ORP, and most likely the car will drive better with the exhaust cam moved a few degrees one way or the other. Haven't we all seen engines that ran better with their mufflers installed than with the header open? At least at low rpm...that is.
WOT pressures, temps and velocities....even down at 2000rpm....are much different than light throttle and so might not be influenced so much by a degree or three.
When we install the cam gears, we get them as close as we can to perfect...yes? This means the cam timing bar fits into the slots @ TDC. But, we are prey to machining inaccuracies and variables beyond our control when we do this. Granted, if moving the cam a few degrees makes things run better, it is arguable that the cam wasn't in the proper place in the first place. But, if the timing bar fits....how are we to know that it isn't perfect? And, without the degreeable cam gear, get it 'perfect'?
So Tom.....are you saying that your testing shows NO change in power production with moving the exhaust cam -6 to +6? If so...I'm not buying it. Every engine is different and some just might run best at the factory designed setting. But....some won't and those are the ones that will benefit from the cam gear. And, unless you have the gear and have tried moving it around....how is one supposed to know that he is running his best?
Change the exhaust with low restriction cat or ORP, and most likely the car will drive better with the exhaust cam moved a few degrees one way or the other. Haven't we all seen engines that ran better with their mufflers installed than with the header open? At least at low rpm...that is.
WOT pressures, temps and velocities....even down at 2000rpm....are much different than light throttle and so might not be influenced so much by a degree or three.
When we install the cam gears, we get them as close as we can to perfect...yes? This means the cam timing bar fits into the slots @ TDC. But, we are prey to machining inaccuracies and variables beyond our control when we do this. Granted, if moving the cam a few degrees makes things run better, it is arguable that the cam wasn't in the proper place in the first place. But, if the timing bar fits....how are we to know that it isn't perfect? And, without the degreeable cam gear, get it 'perfect'?
So Tom.....are you saying that your testing shows NO change in power production with moving the exhaust cam -6 to +6? If so...I'm not buying it. Every engine is different and some just might run best at the factory designed setting. But....some won't and those are the ones that will benefit from the cam gear. And, unless you have the gear and have tried moving it around....how is one supposed to know that he is running his best?
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
Your rambling , Ford installs the cam gears with a computer having all the cam specs and installing them for the most Cyl PSI they can get , you cant fo that with a pin on the crank and a cam timing bar
If you had done your home work ( this is a good learning mistake) and done before and after as this is ALLWAYS the way to do testing you MIGHT of seen 1 to 3 HP gain at best
If you feel power at 2000 then how you go it is still there at 6000 it could be more it could be less but it will still be there reguardless of anything listed above
You are basing all this on what gains you got by not getting your adj gears installed in the same location as the stock ones were installed , so when you adjusted them you got a lot of gains , gains NO ONE has ever got by cam gears before , BUT if you had done a dyno before my guess is you wouldnt even of made a post because you would of felt foolish for spending that amount of time and money just for 2HP
Learn from your mistake and use it as you do more mods dont try covering it up with a bunch of engine lingo that doesnt make sence
Tom
If you had done your home work ( this is a good learning mistake) and done before and after as this is ALLWAYS the way to do testing you MIGHT of seen 1 to 3 HP gain at best
If you feel power at 2000 then how you go it is still there at 6000 it could be more it could be less but it will still be there reguardless of anything listed above
You are basing all this on what gains you got by not getting your adj gears installed in the same location as the stock ones were installed , so when you adjusted them you got a lot of gains , gains NO ONE has ever got by cam gears before , BUT if you had done a dyno before my guess is you wouldnt even of made a post because you would of felt foolish for spending that amount of time and money just for 2HP
Learn from your mistake and use it as you do more mods dont try covering it up with a bunch of engine lingo that doesnt make sence
Tom
Hmmmmm.....'engine lingo that doesnt make sence'. Sorry to ask what seemed to be reasonable questions trying to get you to explain your position. Empirical knowledge IS valuable, but knowing the theoreticals involved are also important.
I don't have a dyno....and am not in the position of trying to convince anyone to use one. And, a dyno isn't going to be a good place to experiment with part throttle operation anyhow.
I don't give a whit whether I made or lost a few HP at redline. I drive my car every day and can tell that it runs better with the cam retarded vs the factory setup. I DID run it for several days at 0' after the gear install and noticed no change in the performance...good or bad. Only moving the timing around did things get better and worse. Your mileage may vary.
Oh....for the record, I DO have a way to measure performance, it is called The Summit and it is right behind my house. Back in the very early days of automobiles, running the Summit was a great accomplishment and it is still a pretty good test of an engine. 4 miles of steep hill has a way of showing you what you have....maybe even better than watching a needle on a dyno! Amazing! And, the Summit says I didn't hurt my power production at all. Maybe even increased it a bit up on top....but I most definately CAN say I made it better around 2500-3000 WOT as I can pull the hill in 6th now around 65mph. Stock timing forced a downshift to 5th to get to the top. That is NO mistake....
I don't have a dyno....and am not in the position of trying to convince anyone to use one. And, a dyno isn't going to be a good place to experiment with part throttle operation anyhow.
I don't give a whit whether I made or lost a few HP at redline. I drive my car every day and can tell that it runs better with the cam retarded vs the factory setup. I DID run it for several days at 0' after the gear install and noticed no change in the performance...good or bad. Only moving the timing around did things get better and worse. Your mileage may vary.
Oh....for the record, I DO have a way to measure performance, it is called The Summit and it is right behind my house. Back in the very early days of automobiles, running the Summit was a great accomplishment and it is still a pretty good test of an engine. 4 miles of steep hill has a way of showing you what you have....maybe even better than watching a needle on a dyno! Amazing! And, the Summit says I didn't hurt my power production at all. Maybe even increased it a bit up on top....but I most definately CAN say I made it better around 2500-3000 WOT as I can pull the hill in 6th now around 65mph. Stock timing forced a downshift to 5th to get to the top. That is NO mistake....
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
You still dont get it , Here is an old story I love to tell , Customer brought in his car for me to install a set of UDP , he came back later and I told him he was good to go and we can do the bill later , told him to drive it a few days and come back to let me know how it felt , A few days later he returned and said how much better is was and felt just driving it around town , that it for sure had better lower end and mid range and he couldnt wait to take it back to the track , How dumb he felt when I handed him his UDP telling him I wanted to test to see how much parts added and how much the customer thought parts added
There is no country road or the summit that will ever replace a Dyno if there was then Nascar and 100`s of teams would be sitting out side your door waiting for there chance to go the summit , comments like this just go to prove how much you should be listening and not trying to tell others that have been there and done it that they are wrong
Your argueing about testing you didnt do and I have done ? ? ?
Tom
There is no country road or the summit that will ever replace a Dyno if there was then Nascar and 100`s of teams would be sitting out side your door waiting for there chance to go the summit , comments like this just go to prove how much you should be listening and not trying to tell others that have been there and done it that they are wrong
Your argueing about testing you didnt do and I have done ? ? ?
Tom
Joined
·
11,906 Posts
I think the best we saw on my car was 5-6whp and tq.... but that was on a 300+whp turbo car.
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!