Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Good afternoon,
I'm getting ready to head to the track for some HPDE in a couple of months and need some help/advice. My '12 SE (sport package) is my dd and track car. The last 2 events at Virginia International Raceway, if I was able to get a really good lap in without getting into traffic and having to crawl through the corners, the 2nd time into turn 1, my brakes got squishy. I would get good initial bite, but I would lose the power to really clamp down and modulate as I got closer to the turn. Turn 1 is, for me, a 110mph straight to a 35-40mph turn so I'm trying to scrub off 70mph pretty quickly.

I have the high temp brake fluid in, and Hawk HPS street/autocross pads on. I have noticed that even when I stand on the brakes, I can't get the ABS to come on, but I feel very comfortable when braking hard. Is this fade issue an issue with the pads? Should I get "track" pads and will they help with the heat issue? Or should I get new rotors too?

Like I said, it only happens after a really good lap when I don't get caught in traffic and have to slow down.

Thanks in advance.

Darin
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
44,595 Posts
Get a set of race pads to throw on at the track. (front)

Optimum is having a spare set of rotors to use just with those pads at the track, but if your rotors are in good condition you can get away with swapping pads.

Just toss 'em back in the box afterwards (marked by what side they were on) for the next HPDE event.
 

·
Strichmädchen & Koks
Joined
·
3,112 Posts
Dedicated track pads will help a lot, and getting some cool air to the brakes will also help. Not sure what is available for Focus, but see about getting some ambient air routed from the grille or bumper to the front brakes. I bet there's a kit out there somewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Might not hurt to get some stainless steel lines as well. Rubber sucks under high temperature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
Good afternoon,
I'm getting ready to head to the track for some HPDE in a couple of months and need some help/advice. My '12 SE (sport package) is my dd and track car. The last 2 events at Virginia International Raceway, if I was able to get a really good lap in without getting into traffic and having to crawl through the corners, the 2nd time into turn 1, my brakes got squishy. I would get good initial bite, but I would lose the power to really clamp down and modulate as I got closer to the turn. Turn 1 is, for me, a 110mph straight to a 35-40mph turn so I'm trying to scrub off 70mph pretty quickly.

I have the high temp brake fluid in, and Hawk HPS street/autocross pads on. I have noticed that even when I stand on the brakes, I can't get the ABS to come on, but I feel very comfortable when braking hard. Is this fade issue an issue with the pads? Should I get "track" pads and will they help with the heat issue? Or should I get new rotors too?

Like I said, it only happens after a really good lap when I don't get caught in traffic and have to slow down.

Thanks in advance.

Darin
Got that issue and then some: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538666

Basically I have ordered front & rear rotors (the front being the 2 piece from StopTech), Hawks pads and SS brake lines.
I'll have to get some brake fluid (RF660 or something alike) and replace everything I destroyed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
I instruct HPDE. I'd say the problem is one of two things: either your fluid is boiling or your pads aren't up to snuff. What kind of hi-temp brake fluid are you using? I use ATE Super Blue and have never had an issue though you should bleed it regularly so there is always fresh fluid in the system.
Having the correct pads for the task is the next step. I use Hawk pads exclusively but the HPS are not the right ones for what you are doing. I used the Blue pads on my Audi GT and they worked very well but were dirty. On my BMW I run HT-10 IIRC (haven't bought any for awhile!). Very low dust, great bite and completely consistent. I run no brake ducts, stock blank rotors and have never had a problem...and as an instructor/racer I use them hard!
If you change these two things I think you will solve your problems. Braided brake lines can also be a benefit. I would not spend money on fancy blingtastic rotors...rarely do you need anything different, and if you do you probably need a bigger set of brakes anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
The issue is likely the Torque Vectoring steering that is overheating the pads in the corners.
The RF pad is probably the hotter of the two at VIR due to the number of right turns where power is applied.
If you are a relatively new to track driving you may also be over braking for the corners.
It is a common occurrence.

Turn one at VIR is a heavy braking zone, but since it is a good distance from the last braking zone, there is normally plenty of time for the brakes to cool.

The HPS pads aren't really great track pads, the HP+ is better suited for track use but a dedicated track pad is the best bet to handle the heat and up the grip level.

For example, I run Cobalt XR3's on the front and XR5's on the rear of my SVT and have had zero braking issues, even without cooling ducts, on tracks all over the country. (Including many trips to VIR)

Cobalt's conversion chart shows the XR5's as equivalent to Hawk DTC-05.
The DTC-05's performance is between the HPS and HP+ as far as grip and temperature range.

The Cobalt XR3's are equivalent to Hawk's DTC-30.
The DTC-30 has a much higher coefficient of friction and holds that grip at elevated temperatures.
http://www.hawkperformance.com/compound-graph
http://www.cobaltfriction.com/category_s/2430.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
269 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks all. I appreciate the help. I ordered some Hawk HT-10 pads for the front. I already run high temp fluid, cant remember brand or type, but I had a shop do it that knew my application and sponsors cars in NASA. I'm going to assume they got the right stuff. When the weather warms up, ill get the wheels off and check the rotors. Ive been noticing a little pulsing recently on the street so new rotors might be in the offing anyways. I will keep the HPS pads on the rear for the time being. I am going ti hold off on the stainless brake lines for the time being. If I can sell my old Harley, the wife let me get a "track" car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Thanks all. I appreciate the help. I ordered some Hawk HT-10 pads for the front. I already run high temp fluid, cant remember brand or type, but I had a shop do it that knew my application and sponsors cars in NASA. I'm going to assume they got the right stuff. When the weather warms up, ill get the wheels off and check the rotors. Ive been noticing a little pulsing recently on the street so new rotors might be in the offing anyways. I will keep the HPS pads on the rear for the time being. I am going ti hold off on the stainless brake lines for the time being. If I can sell my old Harley, the wife let me get a "track" car.
Cars in NASA? [dunno]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
739 Posts
Yes, the National Auto Sport Association has a few cars in it.
Ahhhh. My mind immediately went to cars in space. [goofydrunk]
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top