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I ran 104s for the summer. I just put the stock plugs back that had only 32,000km on them. The 104s were starting to show rounded edges and it would be time to switch them anyway. As far as I am concerned, the stock plugs should be left in unless you are doing something drastic to your engine such as turbocharging.

The 104s cost me $4 CDN a piece and last 20k to 30K km. The stock plugs are $18 CDN each and are supposed to last 100K km. With no improvement in performance or mileage, the 104s are just a waste of time and potentially could lead to premature thread wear in the heads from having to be changed so much.

Save your time and effort for something else. The 104s are just placebo and I am sorry I fell for the hype as I know better.
 

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hense the reason alot of people say upgrades on a COP system are useless.
 

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I understand your anger, but all of the threads say that they wont last very long. They are just a better performance plug. If you buy 5 sets of them you will have spent almost the same for the stock plugs. It is a choice you have to make yourself, no one twisted your arm. If this was on my ranger, I would not waste my time, but the focus plugs are so easy to get to and replace. Just please dont make such a huge deal about them when the info has been posted multiple time.
 

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I put 104's in my focus at 50k miles , gapped to .55, and when my fiance drove it to work the next day she asked me what I did to it because it seemed to "get up and go"....I never told her I changed plugs.
 

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When I bought my car, used, I changed the plug with stock replacements and had a misfire at about 6500 rpm. After reading about 104's I put in a set, without changing anything else, it will rev to 7000 rpm with no misfire. They work great for me. If you use anti-seize on the threads, as you should, there's no worries about worn threads. To each his own.
 

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People have mixed feelings on the 104's. I run them gapped to .060 and dont have any problems. I just change them when I change my oil and clean my air filter (every 10K)

But whatever works for you my friend.
 

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I ran 104s for the summer. I just put the stock plugs back that had only 32,000km on them. The 104s were starting to show rounded edges and it would be time to switch them anyway. As far as I am concerned, the stock plugs should be left in unless you are doing something drastic to your engine such as turbocharging.

The 104s cost me $4 CDN a piece and last 20k to 30K km. The stock plugs are $18 CDN each and are supposed to last 100K km. With no improvement in performance or mileage, the 104s are just a waste of time and potentially could lead to premature thread wear in the heads from having to be changed so much.

Save your time and effort for something else. The 104s are just placebo and I am sorry I fell for the hype as I know better.
Why are you surprised that a 30,000 MAX plug goes bad at 30,000 miles ???

Why are you guys not running the AR104 ???

Tom
 

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I might be wrong, but is there a difference between just the cheap 104 and the AR104?
Ohhhh my yes , we did a lot of testing for Autolite on the AR plugs back when they first came out , our dyno of this plug in a Latemodel Dirt car was there poster child for this plug , we had a 13HP gain on a 680HP 358 CU IN engine

The wire on the plug is cut back unshrouding the electrode and exposing more of the kournal ( start of the flame travel) this is kind of old school, I use to do this by hand on the grinder years ago and well worth installing the AR over the STD 104

Tom
 

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i wonder if i can order those...

and can i have my dyno sheet please?
 

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Ohhhh my yes , we did a lot of testing for Autolite on the AR plugs back when they first came out , our dyno of this plug in a Latemodel Dirt car was there poster child for this plug , we had a 13HP gain on a 680HP 358 CU IN engine

The wire on the plug is cut back unshrouding the electrode and exposing more of the kournal ( start of the flame travel) this is kind of old school, I use to do this by hand on the grinder years ago and well worth installing the AR over the STD 104

Tom
damn, i just barley did my 104s again yesterday. ill have to get the AR plugs soon and change them again

BTW, Where do you get these from Tom? Are they a common thing or are they something special?

I cant find these anywhere
 

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Why are you surprised that a 30,000 MAX plug goes bad at 30,000 miles ???

Why are you guys not running the AR104 ???

Tom
Tom AR104's are the racing plugs, am I correct? would they help all modified 2.3's like mine... mods are in my profile...I gotta give u a rep...not that you need it... but you're still the man...[thumb]
 

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x2^^
whats the major difference between the plugs...the autolite doesnt give much detail besides saying that the AR "Provides cut back ground electrode, anti-corrosive nickel plating and large ground electrode for better heat transfer. "
 

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^ have you guys found a AR104 parts listing? All i can find is AR103 which is just a step colder right?
 

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I myself run 104's copper. Mpg rouughly same if not a little better. I just like to change my plugs every other oil change. lets me know if i'm running rich/lean.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
1. I wasn't surprised that the plugs wear out. I was stating that they do, and their wear rate was the same per buck as the OEM ones.

2. I use anti-seize on the threads. This does not totally negate the possibility of damaging threads when changing plugs.

3. I am not angry, just sorry I wasted my time in light of my 30+ years of experience as an engine tuner and builder

4. Any anecdotal evidence regarding the benefits of one plug change mean nothing. Even cheap new plugs almost always give immediate relief to ignition issues if the old plugs are defective or not working properly in the first place. New plugs will give better performance than old plugs most of the time. Disconnecting and reconnecting ignition wires and coil wires can cause improved performance from contacts getting cleaned. Beating on a car to test if a problem has gone away can sometimes make the problem go away by cleaning out deposits in the combustion chambers, cleaning out injectors, etc...

5. It is difficult to read plugs unless you know exactly what you are doing. Seeing really bad mixture ratios and pre-ignition/detonation is one thing you can see on plugs but fine tuning on a fuel injected car running under varied and uncontrolled conditions is not practical by reading the plugs.

6. Plugs can make a difference on performance if there are major changes in the engine that require different balances in what is needed from the plug. For example a higher output engine (not just 10 or 20 more hp) might need a colder plug.

7. Copper plugs were first introduced not because of their specific electrical conductivity, but rather for their heat conductivity. The spark plug is just one small part in the chain of electrical conductors in the ignition system. The spark plug wires and the COP connections to the plugs on stock ignition systems are almost certainly never copper anyway. The electrodes on the plugs are not copper, just some part of the core to help conduct heat. Iridium plugs DO have iridium on the electrodes to prevent erosion and melting as iridium melts over twice the temperature as copper. Because it can withstand higher temperatures it can be made thinner and therefore will heat up faster and self clean better. Iridium plugs can also be copper plugs.

I still stand by my conclusion that the 104s are a waste of time. This might have been concluded by others in other posts. I am just adding my two cents to this.
 

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We talked about the AR103's a long time ago. Not sure that they make an AR104. I posted them as a plug that can be used and is considered a racing plug. They are like $6 each if I can remember correctly. Then Tom chimed in and said his words about how good these plugs are. I plan on getting them just havent been driving the focus much. You can order them off of kragen, parts plus, checker whatever you have in your area or online from them.
 
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