Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Is there a chip, supercharger, or turbo that will for an Automatic 2000 Ford Focus ZX3, 2.0 Zetec?
 

·
EvenDeathCan'tStopMe
Joined
·
4,894 Posts
There are several.

You can get an SCT tune (ATXs are able to be tuned.. it really helps shift points!) And I believe most superchargers WILL work, but you NEED the proper tune for them.

Correct me if I am wrong, F/I people...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
Well you can do tuning to a point with an automatic...you just have to bear in mind that the 4F27E is nearly getting as much power as it can handle from a stock Zetec...realisitcally you should only add 10-15 horsepower at the crank without modifying the transmission or replacing it with a performance model. On a side note, Procharger offers an automatic tune for their supercharger, but its significantly detuned...and I'd take their word with a grain of salt that it won't kill a stock auto, given that the 4F27E is known to give out on a stock setup. I'd think you'd have to at least replace the torque converter and valvebody before even considering any form of forced induction.

Personally, if it was my car I wouldn't go any further than intake/header/exhaust, mild-grind cams, cam gears, 65mm TB/UDP and a tune without overhauling or replacing the stock ATX. If a transmission has a history of dying on a stock setup, any added power is just going to increase the chance of it breaking down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
PW offers a ATX SC with programming. I have yet to hear from anyone who has actually had ATX failure with mods... its all been conjecture, it seems that MTX owners post their opinions without some real facts about ATX’s. I think Tom’s fastest car is with a Lentech ATX . Hmm, I wonder why that is? Granted a Lentech is not a stock ATX, but you guys who have MTX’s need to invest in LSD’s & high end clutch set-ups when going for high end performance...which isn’t stock equipment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
^
The 4F27E (the ATX all Foci have been equipped with since 2000) has a maximum power input rating of something around 140...and a stock Zetec puts out 130. So the "facts" are that while with upgrades a stock ATX can handle big power, without upgrades you'll quickly turn your transmission into even more of a slushbox than it already is. And the Lentech? That's a fully aftermarket built automatic that starts around $2300. Keyword there is built...meaning it can handle a lot of power, unlike a stock automatic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Once again you’re into theory not fact & that is conjecture, please post some fact that an ATX went south because of mod over kill. LSD’s & clutch assemblies are not cheap, with no guarantee that the clutch you choose is the right one for your needs & as you get older, a heavy clutch is something you can live without plus if you do any drag racing, the auto will considently outperform you. The Lentech might start at $2300, but once you have it, it’s a done deal. how much do you think replacing clutch assem. is going to cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
SkaAddict said:
^
The 4F27E (the ATX all Foci have been equipped with since 2000) has a maximum power input rating of something around 140...and a stock Zetec puts out 130. So the "facts" are that while with upgrades a stock ATX can handle big power, without upgrades you'll quickly turn your transmission into even more of a slushbox than it already is. And the Lentech? That's a fully aftermarket built automatic that starts around $2300. Keyword there is built...meaning it can handle a lot of power, unlike a stock automatic.
just one other question, if the Zetec ATX is rated at around 140, how is it that PW is able to offer a SC rated at 190hp & 170tq for a bone stock ATX? And supported by ZX Tuner, CFM, & McNews. PW tested this set-up extensively & found absolutely no negative issues before releasing this kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
A few things about the ATX Powerworks kit...

For starters, this kit hasn't been available to the public for more than a year at this point. They may have tested it to ensure that its not going to kill a transmission 500 miles down the road, but I seriously doubt they tested it to 10,000 or 20,000 miles, or for a few years' time.

Also, like I said its been de-tuned from what the kit is capable of. Less output=easier on the transmission. And as stated, its been tuned to go easy on the transmission during shifting. However, I would contend that defeats the purpose of having a forced induction system...the best time to mash on the gas is after you've changed gears.

I say 140 HP is the rated power input for the 4F27E because that's what Ford rated it at. Just like they rated the MTX-75 at 165. Now does that mean that you're automatically going to trash the transmission if you go over 140? No...but given the 4F27E's track record of giving up the ghost on a stock setup (and if you want to say I'm making shit up and its "not fact just conjecture" again, just do a search on it...there's several people on this forum who have gone through two or three transmissions in less than 50,000 miles with light or no modifications) its going to be much more likely to break down if you increase the power going in by 50 or 60 HP. Now there are affordable upgrades you can do to strengthen a stock ATX like the torque converters and recalibrated valve bodies that Ford Racing and Lentech sell that can be bolted into the 4F27E that will make a stock transmission able to go the distance with significant power increases. Its the same way that a stock Zetec cannot go much past 250 HP without needing forged pistons and rods and a CGI block...Ford doesn't put high-end performance parts on every Focus they roll out of the factory, especially automatic transmissions on an economy car. On average, someone who buys an automatic-transmission equipped economy car isn't going to give a rat's ass about performance modifications. The fact is, if you increase power enough into any stock component its going to break.

You keep referring to a clutch and limited-slip differential as if they're required...I can throw your "that's not fact its just conjecture" right back in your face. Several people on here have run turbo and supercharger setups on stock clutches with open differentials. The difference here is, a clutch is much easier/cheaper to replace than it is to replace or rebuild an automatic transmission and a limited slip differential is entirely optional. That said, at least with a manual transmission you have the option of installing a LSD...next time you're driving, cut the wheel all the way to one extreme and mash the gas. I can guarantee you that the outside wheel will spin while the inside wheel stays stationary...the same way the stock open differential in a manual transmission spins the outside wheel while the inside wheel remains stationary...the power takes the path of least resistance, in this case, to the wheel has has the least grip on the road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
Powerworks says they have put over 20k on their development car with a stock ATX. The ATX shifts pretty quick (Faster than a MTX) so I think it's a moot point that the powerworks ATX tune makes the SC go easy on it while it's shifting. They did have to detune the kit, but after you invest in a stronger TQ convertor, valvebody, and alto clutches you can retune the kit to get back what you would get on the MTX version at the crank. Whp would be less because of the higher drivetrain loss of the ATX.

Also, several people on a forum is not evidence of a systemic problem with the ATX. There are too many variables to take into account as to why their transmissions failed. Several people on this forum have had no problems whatsoever with their ATXs. Hundreds of thousands of these transmissions have been made and Ford hasn't changed the ATX throughout it's life except to strengthen the TQ convertor to handle the Duratec engines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
SkaAddict said:
A few things about the ATX Powerworks kit...

For starters, this kit hasn't been available to the public for more than a year at this point. They may have tested it to ensure that its not going to kill a transmission 500 miles down the road, but I seriously doubt they tested it to 10,000 or 20,000 miles, or for a few years' time.

Also, like I said its been de-tuned from what the kit is capable of. Less output=easier on the transmission. And as stated, its been tuned to go easy on the transmission during shifting. However, I would contend that defeats the purpose of having a forced induction system...the best time to mash on the gas is after you've changed gears.

I say 140 HP is the rated power input for the 4F27E because that's what Ford rated it at. Just like they rated the MTX-75 at 165. Now does that mean that you're automatically going to trash the transmission if you go over 140? No...but given the 4F27E's track record of giving up the ghost on a stock setup (and if you want to say I'm making shit up and its "not fact just conjecture" again, just do a search on it...there's several people on this forum who have gone through two or three transmissions in less than 50,000 miles with light or no modifications) its going to be much more likely to break down if you increase the power going in by 50 or 60 HP. Now there are affordable upgrades you can do to strengthen a stock ATX like the torque converters and recalibrated valve bodies that Ford Racing and Lentech sell that can be bolted into the 4F27E that will make a stock transmission able to go the distance with significant power increases. Its the same way that a stock Zetec cannot go much past 250 HP without needing forged pistons and rods and a CGI block...Ford doesn't put high-end performance parts on every Focus they roll out of the factory, especially automatic transmissions on an economy car. On average, someone who buys an automatic-transmission equipped economy car isn't going to give a rat's ass about performance modifications. The fact is, if you increase power enough into any stock component its going to break.

You keep referring to a clutch and limited-slip differential as if they're required...I can throw your "that's not fact its just conjecture" right back in your face. Several people on here have run turbo and supercharger setups on stock clutches with open differentials. The difference here is, a clutch is much easier/cheaper to replace than it is to replace or rebuild an automatic transmission and a limited slip differential is entirely optional. That said, at least with a manual transmission you have the option of installing a LSD...next time you're driving, cut the wheel all the way to one extreme and mash the gas. I can guarantee you that the outside wheel will spin while the inside wheel stays stationary...the same way the stock open differential in a manual transmission spins the outside wheel while the inside wheel remains stationary...the power takes the path of least resistance, in this case, to the wheel has has the least grip on the road.
The PW/ATX kit is indeed available, check the PW web site & CFM & McNews has them on sale for about $3000.00. And remember the question that the person who started this thread was asking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
No one said it isn't available. To answer the original question: It's yes to all three.
Most people recommend spending the extra few dollars and getting flasher instead of a chip.
Do a search for SCT or diablo.

As for F/I check out the F/I forum you'll get everything you need there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
opus1 said:
The PW/ATX kit is indeed available, check the PW web site & CFM & McNews has them on sale for about $3000.00. And remember the question that the person who started this thread was asking.
Yeah...I said it hasn't been available for more than a year. They were showcasing it at JetFest last July when it wasn't for sale. Words are for reading...my point is the question of does their ATX tune really go easy on the transmission hasn't been proven yet. Its not like we're talking about something that's been on the market for three or four years, and there's a couple hundred of them that you can point to and say that they have a good track record. On top of that, I'd question the logic behind spending $3,000 on a supercharger that's only going to make 190 crank horse power...which on an auto equates to something like 150 at the wheels...I can put a Ford Racing head and cams on my car and have higher numbers than that N/A for about half the price.

Yes, I remember the original question...you're the one who steered this thread off topic by calling me a lying sack of shit for saying that a stock ATX can't handle a lot of power...which they can't. Tell you what, since you seem to think the stock autos are so indestructable and bulletproof, why don't you have a turbo kit installed and not do anything to your transmission and see how long it lasts. Or e-mail Tom and ask him how many turbo kits he's installed on cars that have bone stock autos...or any other of the Focus tuners for that matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
No, it's 190 at the wheels, not crank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,262 Posts
After some researching, the 4F27E transmission is rated at 270 ft-lbs of torque going into the transmission after the torque converter. The stock TC mutiplies the torque by nearly 2 times, hence the maximum ft-lbs at the crank should not be any higher than 135-140, assuming you want the transmission to last its expected lifespan. Now in practice you can go over the rated figures...hell, Tom has several customers running 200+ WTQ on MTX-75s that are only rated to 165 ft-lbs at the crank...however, manual transmissions are much more robust because its a physical gear-to-gear linkage opposed to impellers driving impellers with transmission fluid and a hive of solenoids and valves that do the shifting.

Will a stock ATX live on the PW supercharger? Prehaps...that has yet to be seen. They can say all they want about how it performs on their shop car, how it performs in real life is another thing. But regardless, I wouldn't want to be the guy who finds out the hard way. Salvage autos run about $500 plus a hefty shipping bill (and who knows how the previous owner drove their car before it was wrecked)...I'd rather throw a recalibrated valve body and 12 spline TC in for the same amount rather than go through having to replace the entire transmission. Its not like you could potentially run one of these on an engine making 500 BHP and expect it to last for any significant amount of time like you guys seem to think you can...remember, Tom's white ZX3 was driven by an aftermarket built automatic that costs nearly as much as the Poweworks kit, not an unmodified or even modified stocker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
479 Posts
Ford doesn't put high-end performance parts on every Focus they roll out of the factory, especially automatic transmissions on an economy car. On average, someone who buys an automatic-transmission equipped economy car isn't going to give a rat's ass about performance modifications. The fact is, if you increase power enough into any stock component its going to break.

Once again, I am just trying to answer the original posted question & you some how is fixated that this a MTX vs an ATX thread. It sounds like you’re die-hard MTX person & will argue that point to death. What you write is very telling, when it comes right down to it, you’re driving the same ecomony car except for the transmission.
I believe that this forum is not made up of average owners & YES! there are some of us members who do give a rat’s ass about performance; therefore, your real issue is the difference in transmissions.
IMO, we who have ATX’s are not looking to make the same power as our MTX counterparts, we would just like to maximize & optimize what we have.
FYI, I never refer to or imply that you were a lying sack of [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]*, & if you got those vibes, than I am offering you my most humblest apologies for that misunderstanding.
So, let’s all be helpful & try to answer the original question in this thread. 1. PW does offer a SC that should be ATX safe. 2. Procharger is another option. 3. High Boost is close to offering a TC. 4. ZIOS has one available, but still in the testing process. 5. Roush has a TC. 6. Vortech has an SC. 6. You can also go Nitrous.
IMO, a tune is absolutely essential for ATX’s, they can program your shift points, but more importantly, tighten the shaifts & if you decide to go fi, a good tuner can program the shifts much like PW’s tune, to soften the launch & shift point torque level to prolong the life of your ATX.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Yes to all three, but this is a forum and it is all about the discusion of information. So far there are no opinions just facts for thought, whether misinturpeted or not. Besides the subject title is "ATX Performance", so lets discuss and give the FocusFanatic our best answer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,288 Posts
It's not like we are waiting for someone to be a guinea pig. According to COSDEVSVT, there are two or three members on FJ who actually have the kit on their ATXs. I don't know how many miles they have put on the transmission since the installation though and I don't have an account on FJ, but if you are interested you could try asking about it over there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Beings an ATX 2000 ZX3 owner my self... I can honestly say that getting a tune should be one of the first few things you wanna do to your engine. I noticed the biggest difference in my car's performance after I got the XCAL2 chip from Focus Sport! Well worth the money spent! [thumb]
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top