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Discussion Starter #1
From watching a few utube videos, a larger intercooler really is worth the investment. The difference in a multiple gear pull is temps in the 105F instead of 150F inside the intercooler.

I would want to keep the shutter system, so any i got would have to be thin enoough to allow that. Apparently the Vortech allows keeping the shutters.

The other issue for ME in particular would be stock tune.
i would like the benefit of a bigger intercooler, but would I be able to keep the stock tune? Is the size internal volume important issue in a 'tune'?
So any opinions on a 'fail' if I kept the stock tune? Or would it be OK.
Just curious.
 

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Are you talking about increasing the diameter/flow of the charge pipe into the throttle or just installing an intercooler with a larger volume/cooling capacity?

If all you are doing is installing a larger volume intercooler and maintaining the same charge pipes you will not require a tune. The OEM/stock Tune will make adjustments for the intake air temperature as per normal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
just installing an intercooler with a larger volume/cooling capacity?

If all you are doing is installing a larger volume intercooler and maintaining the same charge pipes you will not require a tune. The OEM/stock Tune will make adjustments for the intake air temperature as per normal.
Thanks. Yes it would only be the actual intercooler would be bigger to avoid (as much) heat soak.

The real shortcoming of the stock intercooler is it is hit by heat soak really fast. So before you hit the end of the quarter mile, it is barfing up lunch.

Otehrwise all the stock stuff seems fine to me.
 

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Well if you are looking to ring a few tenths in the 1320. A tune would net you the best results.
 

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Thanks. Yes it would only be the actual intercooler would be bigger to avoid (as much) heat soak.

The real shortcoming of the stock intercooler is it is hit by heat soak really fast. So before you hit the end of the quarter mile, it is barfing up lunch.

Otehrwise all the stock stuff seems fine to me.
Tune over IC for sure. You could also unplug the grill shutter in open position.
 

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Tune over IC for sure. You could also unplug the grill shutter in open position.
Personally I'd agree to disagree on this, but a tune should be the last thing you do to a car, or at least after the intercooler and other upgrades.

Intercooler before tune is the way to go if you were to modify the car at all because what good does increasing the boost which increases heat if you can only use it in even shorter bursts than stock due to the increased heat?
 

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Personally I'd agree to disagree on this, but a tune should be the last thing you do to a car, or at least after the intercooler and other upgrades.

Intercooler before tune is the way to go if you were to modify the car at all because what good does increasing the boost which increases heat if you can only use it in even shorter bursts than stock due to the increased heat?
When, in the streets, did you ever heat soaked your stock intercooler? I drove in 30-40c all summer (86-104f) and never heat soaked my ST. I had a good tuner, colder spark plugs and a FRPP CAI.

That would be different if he is tracking the car.
 

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After just one or two pulls up to speed you would have experienced heat soak even on the streets, just two or three acceleration runs up to speed while holding onto boost in lower gears has according to other ST owners who were data logging shown increases from just a few degrees over ambient to over 100F over ambient quite quickly.

However for most normal driving circumstances you would require neither a tune nor a better intercooler as you're not often in heavy enough boost to require this.

I don't mean to hijack the O.P.'s thread with discussions of the merits of an intercooler v.s. a tune, or the order of operations of installing one or the other.

Colder range of spark plugs transfer heat more readily into the head and away from the combustion chamber to compensate slightly for increased cylinder temperatures and pressures, but this alone does not affect intercooler performance.

I've driven on a road course with my car when it was stock, and even then a bigger issue is as usual going to be the brakes depending on the course, although with the upgraded brakes on the cars at the Octane Academy it was a lot of fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The discussion of tune vs intercooler is OK. It still is discussing the merits of what I asked.
I understand the idea of a tune. (plus the pressure due to tuners on board sellingtheir product)
But I am somewhat resistant to a tune.. mainy due to my ineptness at updating computer stuff. Having ruined motherboards trying to update them.. LOL So I and 'tune' should not be in the same room. [bigcry]
Anyway an intercooler would be my favorite thng to do.

The only other thing I would like to do is insulate the intake from the air filter box to the Turbo, (and maybe the pipe from the intercooler to the intake.)
 

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After just one or two pulls up to speed you would have experienced heat soak even on the streets, just two or three acceleration runs up to speed while holding onto boost in lower gears has according to other ST owners who were data logging shown increases from just a few degrees over ambient to over 100F over ambient quite quickly.


I don't mean to hijack the O.P.'s thread with discussions of the merits of an intercooler v.s. a tune, or the order of operations of installing one or the other.
An acceleration in 4th gear in a ST gets you over 120 mph. At this speed, in the streets, you are going fast enough and by the time you slow down, the Stock IC (with always open Active grill shutter via a tune) is back to almost ambiant.

But like you said, We need to stop highjacking the OP.
 

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From watching a few utube videos, a larger intercooler really is worth the investment. The difference in a multiple gear pull is temps in the 105F instead of 150F inside the intercooler.

I would want to keep the shutter system, so any i got would have to be thin enoough to allow that. Apparently the Vortech allows keeping the shutters.

The other issue for ME in particular would be stock tune.
i would like the benefit of a bigger intercooler, but would I be able to keep the stock tune? Is the size internal volume important issue in a 'tune'?
So any opinions on a 'fail' if I kept the stock tune? Or would it be OK.
Just curious.
-Are you willing to pay 900$ for an intercooler?
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product_variation.php?pvk=4728


-I suggest you throw 900$ at this growing company. They will tune your ST and sell you an IC for less!!!!

- http://pandamotorworksstorefront.bigcartel.com

The tuner has the fastest stock turbo ST. [email protected] mph
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Intercoolers for the ST range from $1,100 down to $230.
And a number of folks say the $230 one is great.
 

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I agree with the larger IC first. Not that a tune doesn't make the car a whole better animal, but as stated above it's useless to add more heat to a system that is already troubled in removing it. In the scope of strengthening your chain one weak link at a time, the IC is the first.

The FiST community is similar-we have people wanting to and recommending upgrading the OEM turbo first, even though we're seeing 30°+ raises in charge temps with just one fourth-gear pull. Imho it's pointless to try and make more power if the ECU is just going to pull timing (or the tuner won't be able to add it) for the heat, not to mention the fact that the entire system is now a bottle-neck.

If you add a tune first, it's just going to give you the data to support and reaffirm the need for an IC. If you add the IC first, every additional mod will reap the benefits.

Fwiw Elizabeth, definitely consider getting a custom tune sometime in the future. It is ridiculously simple and easy and there are some really great custom tuners out there that can make awesome and safe power on this platform. I'm personally going with Justin at FreekTune, but there are a few good names doing really good work that can walk you through the process and explain things really well. You're approaching this very smartly which is awesome, but don't discount something that can be so great out of fear.
 

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I agree with the larger IC first. Not that a tune doesn't make the car a whole better animal, but as stated above it's useless to add more heat to a system that is already troubled in removing it. In the scope of strengthening your chain one weak link at a time, the IC is the first.

The FiST community is similar-we have people wanting to and recommending upgrading the OEM turbo first, even though we're seeing 30°+ raises in charge temps with just one fourth-gear pull. Imho it's pointless to try and make more power if the ECU is just going to pull timing (or the tuner won't be able to add it) for the heat, not to mention the fact that the entire system is now a bottle-neck.

If you add a tune first, it's just going to give you the data to support and reaffirm the need for an IC. If you add the IC first, every additional mod will reap the benefits.

Fwiw Elizabeth, definitely consider getting a custom tune sometime in the future. It is ridiculously simple and easy and there are some really great custom tuners out there that can make awesome and safe power on this platform. I'm personally going with Justin at FreekTune, but there are a few good names doing really good work that can walk you through the process and explain things really well. You're approaching this very smartly which is awesome, but don't discount something that can be so great out of fear.
We need a "like" button on this forum.
 

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I ran a stage 4 (intake, catless dp, exhaust, IC & pipes)...no tune for about 2 weeks, before finally getting my tune.
You'll be fine with no tune....but I'd highly advise getting tuned after the IC to take advantage of the ridiculous amount of torque this car puts down tuned.

I can't speak for other tunes..or tuning units but I have the Cobb AP3 with The Mountune (Randy) Stage 4 tune + E30 map as well....from non tune to tune, huge difference. Like driving a new car.
 
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