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"rschaffter" I appreciate the info on the Extended Warranty, etc. Believe me my local Ford dealer did their best to try to sell me one.
I normally don't take my cars to dealers, unless is absolutely necessary, there's plenty information and software out there for a skill diy or mechanic to fix these cars satisfactorily. Being a mechanic by trade, certified and experienced in motorcycles, cars and large modern comercial aircraft(main job for 35+ years), this Ford DCT transmission is not as complicated as some systems I worked in aviation. We often had to device tools and ways to do maintenance/repairs, only difference was, any tool or process had to be certified, no tribal knowledge or diy culture.
I believe as these cars are now discontinued and most cars get the latest fix or ??, the NOS parts and tools will be more available for cheap. I'm looking.

The truth is this DCT is a complete different situation in so many ways, personally I like how my car drives now, will see what happens.

The automatic transmission has been around almost a 100 years and still there's not a perfect one !!
 

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Well it's been several days and aprox. 200 miles since I installed the "helper spring" on my gas pedal, only change from previos pics is, I moved the zip tie on pedal about and 1" forward, for more foot clearance.

Almost all city driving with plenty stop and go, transmission is working very good on takeoff's and is way easier to maintain constant speeds.

Overall very happy with results of this "fix". I'm around 40k and not experiencing any of the real bad DCT issues, just had the very slight and ocassional hesitation/shudder (that was more annoying, than detrimental to overall operation), it's hardly noticeable now.

I'm going to continue to run with this, as I took it off and it basically s***s.

I'm real busy on other affairs for a while, so updates will be slow. My next thing is to try to open the "test" pedal and try to change springs(if even possible ??), WKYP !!

I'm also brainstorming ways to add cooling to transmission, as the worst issues are related to clutch temps.

zrx212
 

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Keep in mind, the clutch is dry so cooling the fluid would have no effect on the clutch/heat/friction/shifting problem.
Never said anything about cooling transmission fluid ?? Not really possible/feasible, is a gear oil, not a pressurized fluid system.

As far I can tell the main cooling of the transmission is heat convection to ambient air(or engine compartment air) by the outher case, thus the reason clutch runs hotter when OAT is high.

IMO can really call it aircooled as no air is purposely directed to transmission for cooling by design, neither has cooling openings, cooling ducts or cooling fins. Like a aircooled Volkswagen or motorcycle.

So adding some kind of auxiliary fan that blows air on tranny or simply moves hot air out of area would be beneficial, the aluminum case is a great heat disssipator, just needs help.

zrx212
 

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Trying to cool the air around the clutch packs via the bellhousing is like trying to cool down a CPU with just a computer case without a heatsink or fan; possible but extremely inefficient.
 

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Trying to cool the air around the clutch packs via the bellhousing is like trying to cool down a CPU with just a computer case without a heatsink or fan; possible but extremely inefficient.
I was simply thinking of and external fan to either blow on transmission or maybe under/behind to pull air out of area.
IMO the major design flaw or oversight of this DCT is the lack of ventilation on the clutch, it's a wear part and the dust particles of the clutch just sit in there, can't be good, on a wet clucth dct the fluid cools and flushes particles, etc., away. No such provisions here, there's a few very small trap(gravity one way flow) drains/vents on case flange, maybe these could be enlarged ?? or some kind of modification/delete done to starter rubber spacer ??(on some models).
 

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Discussion Starter #47
IMO the major design flaw or oversight of this DCT is the lack of ventilation on the clutch
You're in this thread, so I'm sure you've seen the first couple posts. We know about several of the design flaws of this particular transmission and heat generation is a symptom of those, not the overarching cause.

I realize you're saying that it should have some additional cooling and while yes, I'd agree that cooling would help mitigate the overheating issue, the real problem is that it overheats in the first place. That makes the other design flaws the "oversight", not the lack of cooling.

This transmission is garbage. Yes, there are things that can be done to make it less like garbage, but there isn't a single point of failure here. The whole thing from - from hardware to software - is dysfunctional. I can appreciate the desire to address the issues and improve the transmission, though. I just think it's beyond redemption. As does Ford, apparently.
 

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I was simply thinking of and external fan to either blow on transmission or maybe under/behind to pull air out of area.
IMO the major design flaw or oversight of this DCT is the lack of ventilation on the clutch, it's a wear part and the dust particles of the clutch just sit in there, can't be good, on a wet clucth dct the fluid cools and flushes particles, etc., away. No such provisions here, there's a few very small trap(gravity one way flow) drains/vents on case flange, maybe these could be enlarged ?? or some kind of modification/delete done to starter rubber spacer ??(on some models).

It is not a problem with overheating per se. The DCT design is not that much different from a traditional manual dry clutch and a properly operated manual clutch does not overheat. Ford's DCT just replaces the driver operating the shift lever and the clutch with computer control and the motors on the transmission to do the shifting. So, there is no real reason that the DCT transmission is producing a lot more heat than a manual 5 or 6 speed. The issue is that the friction coefficient between the clutch plates and the flywheel changes with temperature fluctuations so it is difficult for the transmission module to make the appropriate minor changes on the fly to account for this phenomenon. A human driver operating a manual can feel the clutch slippage or any shudder that is associated with the clutch release rate and the amount of throttle. Once you are adept at driving, you pretty much make these adjustments instantaneously and unconsciously and the result is a smooth and effective gear shift. It just turns out that it was a lot harder to program a computer to make these same minor adjustments needed to avoid the slipping and shuddering. My non-expert opinion tells me that the transmission does not need more cooling because I don't think any amount of cooling will keep the temperature constant enough to ensure that the friction coefficient remains constant (or at least constant enough for the TCM to always shift properly). I'm thinking that what is needed is a sensor that can detect slip and shudder instantaneously and this data is used in the shifting algorithm much in the same way a human would detect and make these adjustments. Because the data produced by such a sensor would have to feed into the algorithm, it is beyond the realm of a bolt on aftermarket device.
 

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You're in this thread, so I'm sure you've seen the first couple posts. We know about several of the design flaws of this particular transmission and heat generation is a symptom of those, not the overarching cause.

I realize you're saying that it should have some additional cooling and while yes, I'd agree that cooling would help mitigate the overheating issue, the real problem is that it overheats in the first place. That makes the other design flaws the "oversight", not the lack of cooling.

This transmission is garbage. Yes, there are things that can be done to make it less like garbage, but there isn't a single point of failure here. The whole thing from - from hardware to software - is dysfunctional. I can appreciate the desire to address the issues and improve the transmission, though. I just think it's beyond redemption. As does Ford, apparently.
Well I read possibly dozens of websites, etc. about the this DCT, yes it has a lot of issues, some of inherit or nature of the beast will never change, some have been mitigated by some OEM/aftermarket fixes, but the one that is most repeated is the temperature issues, be as it may the reason, IME the shudder/stutter/hesitation after a stop, is less present when driving in cold weather (bellow 60F), although sitting in prolong traffic jams has same effects as a hot day driving sometimes if the clutch is overheated. It may not be a magic bullet, but this is would be great for me.

I own a motorcycle that's has several engine design flaws, that's has 50/50 chance of destroying/severely damaging engine and/or causing an accident, it was that way for over 20 years, manufacturer never really admited or fixed it, there's still plenty on the road, most with several different DIY fixes for the issues and have been very well sold bikes, Kawasaki ZX11, ZRX1100/1200 and similar lineage bikes, Thousands sold since 1984, owners basically fixed it and rode on.
 

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Well I read possibly dozens of websites, etc. about the this DCT, yes it has a lot of issues, some of inherit or nature of the beast will never change, some have been mitigated by some OEM/aftermarket fixes, but the one that is most repeated is the temperature issues, be as it may the reason, IME the shudder/stutter/hesitation after a stop, is less present when driving in cold weather (bellow 60F), although sitting in prolong traffic jams has same effects as a hot day driving sometimes if the clutch is overheated. It may not be a magic bullet, but this is would be great for me.

I own a motorcycle that's has several engine design flaws, that's has 50/50 chance of destroying/severely damaging engine and/or causing an accident, it was that way for over 20 years, manufacturer never really admited or fixed it, there's still plenty on the road, most with several different DIY fixes for the issues and have been very well sold bikes, Kawasaki ZX11, ZRX1100/1200 and similar lineage bikes, Thousands sold since 1984, owners basically fixed it and rode on.
If you read my post, you can see that I agree that it IS temperature related (although the seal leakage was another huge problem). I've seen mixed accounts from drivers saying how much of the issue is a function of ambient air temperature but most of them say that it doesn't completely go away when the air temp is cooler. I'm not saying you can't make an improvement but a total fix going this route seems like it is going to be an uphill battle. This is one of those things where people aren't going to accept a partial fix.

I don't want to deter you from trying to come up with something as I would be the first to congratulate you if you could indeed fix the problem. I just want to let you know what I think you are up against because I know the Ford engineers recognized that it was a temperature/friction problem and if there was an easy way to modulate the temperature I don't think we'd be talking about this.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Well I read possibly dozens of websites, etc. about the this DCT, yes it has a lot of issues, some of inherit or nature of the beast will never change, some have been mitigated by some OEM/aftermarket fixes, but the one that is most repeated is the temperature issues, be as it may the reason, IME the shudder/stutter/hesitation after a stop, is less present when driving in cold weather (bellow 60F), although sitting in prolong traffic jams has same effects as a hot day driving sometimes if the clutch is overheated.
Yes, the DPS6 suffers from the same limitations as any dry DCT implementation and that includes a propensity for heat build-up. No one has suggested otherwise.

My point is that even if you're right and it only heat that is what's killing the DPS6, "ventilation" isn't going to help in any meaningful way. Every little bit might help, but the DPS6 is inherently flawed in enough ways that unless you can address several of its many issues at once, you're not going to see any significant improvement. As you seem to be aware, a wet DCT uses the fluid - which has a higher heat capacity - to help dissipate heat. No (reasonable) amount of ventilation is going to help the DPS6 due to its dry design and the flaws that make it such a heat generator in the first place.

It's not that a dry DCT can't be better and it's not that Ford engineers couldn't "fix" the DPS6; rather, it's almost certain that the changes necessary would have been comparatively expensive and so reduced the advantage of a dry DCT (simplicity, weight, cost, efficiency) to make it pointless to use over a tried-and-true wet DCT or regular ol' slushbox.

Please, go out and try something new! Really. This is how mods become popular. This is how things get fixed. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'll be the first to buy whatever gizmo or voodoo you come up with that can be proven to "fix" the DPS6. Just know that the overwhelming majority of people aren't looking for anything short of an actual fix...and I just don't see how you can fix something that is so broken nothing short of a redesign can address its issues.
 

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FYI, I can really speak of previous year model issues or what people experienced with those DCT's, not really sure if any significant changes where made to my 2018 model, but at my present mileage, my only real issue is ocassional shudder when taking off when hot, etc. Otherwise car acts fairly normal for a DCT??, I say that base on experience driving my friends Volkswagen with a wet DSG/DCT(wich had it share of issues $$). The overall operation while car is moving is very good, acceleration is brisk. Not shure what the future holds, but aprox. 20k of warranty left, could be more if the lawsuits go our way.

Most DCT's on the market experience some degree of shuddering or indecision when shifting gears automatically, some are more noticeable than others, paddle shifters really help, but we got auto trans. because is less work.

I might be barking up the wrong three with this cooling issue, I might come up empty handed on this one ??, but any possible relief would be welcome IMO. I'll keep digging, I don't give up easily. Joined "FORscan" and adapter is on the way !!

These are nice cars otherwise, hopefully someone will come up with a fix or maybe ford will do it right/forcibly ?
My other Ford a 2010 Escape got a free power steering column replacement last year, a $1000 part + labor, 9 year old car out of warranty !!, it also started as a law suit and I found out by chance !!

zrx212
 

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Just a PSA, I read this thread and several others(numerous times) on FF forum about DCT's, the reason I posted on this one, is because of the thread title, as I own a 2018 Focus for aprox. 3 months and logged aprox. 6k miles with 40k+ now, I wanted to share my experience and opinions, I have tried to do so to best of my ability.

I see a lot of opinions/information based on previous years models, but not a lot on newer 17/18, maybe not enough sold or owners don't hang out on these sites, just saying :cautious:


IAC back on topic, in addition with all my beforementioned info/fixes ??, forgot to say I've been running 89 shell also. Happy to report that car has been running super, basically no issues with shudder, we had a warm up for the last couple days, 87F today, BTW my normal mileage is aprox. 60-80 miles/ 3 hours driving a day, mostly city driving with plenty traffic/stoplights, etc.

I have to admit, that I also seem to adjusted my driving style, to a point where is almost second nature to apply throttle more effectively, I say this because, I drove with wife today while we where involved in a spirited conversation :rolleyes: and car did not shudder ounce in a 20 mile, city traffic trip (y)
 

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POS car..... I just dropped it off at the Ford Dealer an hour ago because I was running some errands & started smelling a noticeable smell & pulled over. Trans fluid sprayed all over my engine & they think it’s a motor mount. Bad luck..... I just had the clutch packs replaced in Nov., however that was free. I wonder what this will cost me? Ironically, I just test drove a Focus RS this morning. Should’ve bought it.





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POS car..... I just dropped it off at the Ford Dealer an hour ago because I was running some errands & started smelling a noticeable smell & pulled over. Trans fluid sprayed all over my engine & they think it’s a motor mount. Bad luck..... I just had the clutch packs replaced in Nov., however that was free. I wonder what this will cost me? Ironically, I just test drove a Focus RS this morning. Should’ve bought it.





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That is the oil from the motor mount. It popped happened to me smells awful.

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That is the oil from the motor mount. It popped happened to me smells awful.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk



Yep, however they just called me from the ford Dealer & told me it was the motor mount, however apparently I’m also leaking oil from the front of the engine & that they need to replace the timing belt cover now? WTF? I have no idea, but apparently it won’t be done until Tuesday now & they said $1500 out of pocket. Such a waste of money & now I also have to uber back n forth to work for two days. Talk about back luck..... it blows daily driving a car that’s out-of-warranty.





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Yep, however they just called me from the ford Dealer & told me it was the motor mount, however apparently I’m also leaking oil from the front of the engine & that they need to replace the timing belt cover now? WTF? I have no idea, but apparently it won’t be done until Tuesday now & they said $1500 out of pocket. Such a waste of money & now I also have to uber back n forth to work for two days. Talk about back luck..... it blows daily driving a car that’s out-of-warranty.





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You really need to get a second opinion on that, something is off, IMO. IAC get a detailed written estimate
 

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You really need to get a second opinion on that, something is off, IMO. IAC get a detailed written estimate


It’s the closest Ford Dealer to my home & I live alone, so I just have to trust that they’re being honest with me. Could they be lying? Maybe so, but I only have one car & don’t have the time to be driving all over town, during the work week, to take care of this. It’s part of the deal when you daily drive an unreliable car that’s out-of-warranty. I should’ve listened to guys on this forum a long time ago when they told me to get rid of the DCT, but I just didn’t want to spend the money for the ST. I’m already looking at 2018 ST’s or a late build ‘17 RS. It’s time to move on from the DCT....





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I do not trust them. I would have that mount replaced and that is it.
If you don't work on your own vehicle unless it's warranty work you shouldn't be going to a dealership anyway.
Do whatever you want to do but you are a idiot if you allow them to replace that cover seal. It has a 99.9% chance of not leaking. I have never seen one of these engines leak oil from the front cover.


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I will call them first thing Monday morning & tell them to only replace the motor mount. Thanks for the input guys. It’s just frustrating because I was literally just driving to Target & then to get a bite to eat & that happens. Then they want me to pay for it like it’s something I did? Such an unreliable POS car.


Edit: I actually just called the service tech & left him a VM to only replace the motor mount & to Call me Monday morning.



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