Focus Fanatics Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
I was under the impression that the PowerShift gearbox was a joint venture between Ford, Volvo, Getrag, and LuK...but maybe that's just the wet version that Volvo uses and the dry is only Ford and Getrag.

Still, I'm not convinced the parts themselves are actually faulty. If you have the latest revision of everything (seals, clutches, TCM), it's just a crappy implementation that can only be fixed by driving behavior and (maybe) a tune. See the third post in this thread: https://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/mk3-focus/808117-all-things-dct-what-why-its-still-broken-2018-models-ways-fix.html#post11343959
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
The main cause of failure of these clutches is not the clutches themselves but rather the seals in the transmission that leak oil into the dry clutch housing resulting in the clutch being contaminated. So, even if you find a better clutch to install, you would likely end up with the same problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
The main cause of failure of these clutches is not the clutches themselves but rather the seals in the transmission that leak oil into the dry clutch housing resulting in the clutch being contaminated. So, even if you find a better clutch to install, you would likely end up with the same problem.
That's one of the issues, sure. In the post that I linked to above, the issues are summarized based on an explanation provided by Ford Australia. They are:

  1. Defective or poorly-designed seals on the gearbox allowed oil to contaminate the clutches, presenting as a "shudder". This is fixed with an updated seal and because the clutches are contaminated, they're replaced at the same time.
  2. Clutches made of a material that was either defective or inadequate for the job as it relates to heat transfer, resulting in "dry shudder". This is what you'd see in hot weather and/or during "urban" driving comprised of stop-and-go traffic, and why they replace the clutches even without oil contamination.
  3. Though technically unrelated to the DCT itself, cracks in the actual TCM or its solder causing communication delays (100ms+) that resulted in slow or jerky shifting. A revised TCM resolves this issue.
I'm certainly not one to give Ford the benefit of the doubt, but I do think they've addressed the problems above.

Of course, that doesn't address the software; a DCT isn't a slushbox and no amount of programming is going to make it act like one without doing major damage.

And the truth is that it's just a bad design all around. Unlike a drive-by-wire system that would relay the signal that you want to accelerate to the Body Control Module (BCM) - which would in turn determine the throttle response and gear combination for the transmission to use - the DCT (via TCM) simply receives a signal from the pedal and is allowed to make its own (relatively uninformed) decision. Depending on a person's driving habits, this leads to slow release of the clutch (delayed response / hesitation) or a quick release (rough shift / jerking). Combine this poor design with the defective parts listed above and you've got the dumpster fire that is the DPS6.

All that said - and while I don't agree that you should have to drive the car differently than you would if it had a hydraulic auto, since Ford in fact marketed it as an auto - being "intentional" in your driving (avoid creeping in slow traffic and be consistent with your throttle) will certainly help with the performance and should improve longevity of the components, especially if you have the newest revisions of the seal, clutch pack, and TCM. Tom's tune may or may not help with the software. I personally drive in Sport mode a lot of the time, especially in traffic, since it changes the shift points resulting in fewer shifting attempts (and it's more fun, fuel economy be damned).

Now, as it pertains to the original purpose of this thread: I agree that a different clutch pack isn't going to solve any problems if you have already had your clutch pack replaced. If you're out of warranty and want to try something different, sure, go ahead. Will it magically make the DPS6 reliable? Doubtful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
I actually tried to see if anyone was willing to make a performance dual-clutch for our car. South-Bend clutches said it's too much hassle...The closest I got was Clutchmasters saying they would order a OEM clutch and see if they could modify it to make it stronger. A couple months past and I asked them for an update. They said since demand wasn't as much as they were expecting they decided it was not worth it to have them to see if they can make a aftermarket solution till they see a higher demand. Haven't heard from them in about a year now lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
I actually tried to see if anyone was willing to make a performance dual-clutch for our car. South-Bend clutches said it's too much hassle...The closest I got was Clutchmasters saying they would order a OEM clutch and see if they could modify it to make it stronger. A couple months past and I asked them for an update. They said since demand wasn't as much as they were expecting they decided it was not worth it to have them to see if they can make a aftermarket solution till they see a higher demand. Haven't heard from them in about a year now lol.
The other thing is that even if you had an aftermarket clutch to install, you can't complete the install without the proprietary Ford scan tool that the dealers use. After getting everything buttoned up, you have to use the tool to take the new clutch and motors through the learn process that establishes all of the touch points. At best, maybe you could get it all installed and limp to the dealer to have that done but that could be a bit sketchy, not something I would want to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Could you elaborate a little on the process. Is it a straightforward task?
Take a look HERE.

My question is whether anyone has come up with any improvised tools to do the clutch replacement. In particular, some of the seal drivers look to be important in that you have to drive the inner input shaft seal to a specific depth so that requires a pretty job specific tool or some type of workaround.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Take a look HERE.

My question is whether anyone has come up with any improvised tools to do the clutch replacement. In particular, some of the seal drivers look to be important in that you have to drive the inner input shaft seal to a specific depth so that requires a pretty job specific tool or some type of workaround.
Thanks for the link.

Here is a video that shows a garage mechanic who made his own tools for replacement.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. I noticed that he didn't go the Forscan route (perhaps he didn't know about it) and had a Ford mobile tech come do the IDS relearn for $175. Using his homemade tools and Forscan could get you a new clutch, installed (DIY) for around $400.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Interesting that the first post on that Forscan topic says that relearning needs to be performed after reflashing the TCM.

Does that include after flashing tunes? I have not done this and thus far haven't had an issue. I was asked to drive my car for 50 miles before recording any logs for fine tuning, so perhaps there is a certain amount of relearning that goes on automatically??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Interesting that the first post on that Forscan topic says that relearning needs to be performed after reflashing the TCM.

Does that include after flashing tunes? I have not done this and thus far haven't had an issue. I was asked to drive my car for 50 miles before recording any logs for fine tuning, so perhaps there is a certain amount of relearning that goes on automatically??
I've never heard of it being needed after flashing tunes. It may be needed after a TCM reprogram because that probably starts with all stock values and the clutch touch points may be stored in the TCM so it needs to be initialized. I thought it was interesting that it implies that the procedure could help to get rid of shudder in some cases so it would be good to try it before you resort to a clutch change if you don't see any oil leaking out of the bottom of the bell housing. Plus it would be good to know that you can successfully do it before you start the process of installing new clutch. There is also some adaptive learning that happens over the course of driving where it adjusts to your particular driving style to optimize the shifting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Doing the relearn seems to make it chill the f*** out about a 30 min drive afterward.

Along with learning the clutch touch points it resets the learned habits picked up from the driver, ie driving it like a heathen, driving it like a granny, driving it like an auto (don't creep in traffic, and drive with meaning/drive it like a manual)

I run the relearn on mine when it gets bad, which is usually from me 'teaching it bad habits' from having to much fun. only ran it 4 times in the 6 months I've owned it.... i cant be entirely to blame right?!?!

I haven't really ran it since the latest TCM flash from the dealer that was somehow ~100 miles within extended warranty..... if anything i just run the adaptive reset procedure and bobs your uncle!

ford may have put either black magic or some voodoo in the latest TCM sw, haven't determined yet...

all of this is AFAIK, im still learning about this street legal go cart....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Doing the relearn seems to make it chill the f*** out about a 30 min drive afterward.

Along with learning the clutch touch points it resets the learned habits picked up from the driver, ie driving it like a heathen, driving it like a granny, driving it like an auto (don't creep in traffic, and drive with meaning/drive it like a manual)....
Smalls89, a big shout out to you for cluing me into this capability of Forscan. Also to reverendhtc for the DIY clutch replacement video. I started making up the tool kit needed to do the clutch swap and I thought it would be a good idea to try out the adaptive relearn procedure in Forscan to see if it would improve performance without any parts and to see that it would work if I do the clutch. I tried it last night and followed the procedure outlined in the forum and it went exactly as described (including one "Engine Torque Disturbed" error which it said was to be expected). I drove it in to work this morning and there is a noticeable improvement so as Smalls89 says, doing this periodically could be the solution for many of those with subpar DCT performance.

I should also note that I also jacked up the car to look to see if there was any signs of oil leakage at the bellhousing/engine interface and it was dry as a bone. That's not to say that this is a sure sign of no seal leakage but that interface is not designed to be oil-tight because it is supposed to be dry in there.

So, one has to wonder if the clutch touch points get out of tune or some other aspect of the learned shifting algorithm gets out of whack as Smalls89 suggests. I noticed that after I had my purge valve recall work done, my shifting greatly improved so it makes me wonder if some reprogramming was done as part of that that affected the adaptive learning parameters. Then, over time I started feeling the 1-2 shudder starting to come back.

A couple things about running the Adaptive Learning procedure in Forscan are as follows:
1. If something goes wrong while certain portions of the relearn process are happening, you could brick your transmission so you want to minimize the chances of this happening. I made sure my fully charged laptop was also plugged into a power source and also attached a battery charger to my car to make sure the battery was fully charged before starting the process and left it on throughout the process. Here is the scan tool that I used - you need the "modified" type with the switch and the USB/wired type ones provide for a more reliable connection than Bluetooth and that is very important for the Adaptive Relearn function.

2. In the latter stages of the relearn, you have to start the car. I wasn't thinking when I started the process inside my garage so I had to put it in neutral and push it out to finish things up (you really don't want to start it up and put it in gear partway through the process). So, be smart and be prepared by having the vehicle outside before you begin.

3. Follow the directions in the Forscan forum thread and the on-screen instructions closely and you should be fine (do what it tells you to do and then hit the "Ok" button).

4. The whole process took me 15 minutes according to the log file but would have been about 12 minutes if I had started it outside the garage.​

Getting back to the original post on this, the only two options I've found for clutches are the OEM Ford part and the LUK kit which can be had from RockAuto for about $350. If I have to replace the clutch, I'm leaning toward the LUK kit as it comes with new shift forks and the tower piece whereas all you get with the Ford part is the clutch itself. LUK looks to be a reputable manufacturer of clutches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
addendum to the procedures that may not be clear

forscan will show a screen saying the next step is done at WOT (wide open throttle)
BEFORE you hit ok mat it to the floor! Because, as soon as you hit ok, it jumps into that section and may return false due to the engine rpm being on the up swing, floor it then hit ok
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
addendum to the procedures that may not be clear

forscan will show a screen saying the next step is done at WOT (wide open throttle)
BEFORE you hit ok mat it to the floor! Because, as soon as you hit ok, it jumps into that section and may return false due to the engine rpm being on the up swing, floor it then hit ok
Good point. That's what I did and this goes for all the instructions it gives you. Do what it says, then hit "OK".
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top