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Discussion Starter #1
Was looking into buying one of these for the numerous uses and I saw it stated you albsolutely MUST use 91 Octane fuel. Why is that? I didn't think detonation was an issue. Any other reason? I mean I'm looking for a few options TO SAVE MONEY ON GAS. Not to spend more on gas period. [:(]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Poney said:
it canbe tuned for 89 octane if you ask.


wont perform as well, but it can be done
It just seems odd considering the engine is built to operate at 87, duratec 2.3, and say I don't run performance enhancement, just eliminate the egr, the speed limiter and see if i can lower my start up idle, which starts at 1.5k-2k rpms then eventually works down to 750 and levels out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
We are proud to announce our new SCT files for the 2.3L Duratec (PZEV) motor. We have been working hard to finish them. Here is the first complete file using 87octane fuel. The other files with DYNO charts will follow real soon. We are also working on the turbo and supercharger setups.

Wtf, they run 87 octane on their tune? [???:)] [???:)] [???:)]
 

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Yes, you can have the Xcal tuned for any octane you wish

alot of guys pick a 93 octane tune on one file, then a race gas tune 100 octane + on another file.

you can always request a tune for normal 87 octane, but there will not be as much performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I was thinking 89, since in Illinois we only have 87, 89, 91 and well, it's too damn expensive! [:(!]

Oh, and anyone able to tell me the difference between Cali 91 octane compared to the other states? Will 91 from other states burn the same?

[???:)]
 

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tdkaye1 said:
It just seems odd considering the engine is built to operate at 87, duratec 2.3, and say I don't run performance enhancement, just eliminate the egr, the speed limiter and see if i can lower my start up idle, which starts at 1.5k-2k rpms then eventually works down to 750 and levels out there.
If your want to increase mpg, don't eliminate egr. The engine is built to run up to a certain rpm, not what octane you use. The start up idle is higher because it takes a few minutes to reach operating tempeture so it can idle @ 750 rpms. Don't eliminate speed limiter unless you know your engine limits so you don't exceed its threshold which can be expencive to fix. Performance tune is what it is & design to run with 91. If you want more performance, then you have to PAY for it, if you want economy then drive it granny style with 85 (yes it will run on 85). The price difference between octane grades are about 10 cents between them. So a tank full of 87 @ 3.00 a gallon will cost you 39 dollors, 89 1.30 more, & 91 2.60 more. WOW 3 dollors more to run a tank of 91. You can't have your cake & eat it too. This is the real world & were all dealing with high gas prices. If 3 dollors for every tank of gas will put you in financial ruin then pick the economy tune.
 

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91 octane is 91 octane. I think Cal. fuels use more additives to help with emissions.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Fordcus Fan said:
If your want to increase mpg, don't eliminate egr. The engine is built to run up to a certain rpm, not what octane you use. The start up idle is higher because it takes a few minutes to reach operating tempeture so it can idle @ 750 rpms. Don't eliminate speed limiter unless you know your engine limits so you don't exceed its threshold which can be expencive to fix. Performance tune is what it is & design to run with 91. If you want more performance, then you have to PAY for it, if you want economy then drive it granny style with 85 (yes it will run on 85). The price difference between octane grades are about 10 cents between them. So a tank full of 87 @ 3.00 a gallon will cost you 39 dollors, 89 1.30 more, & 91 2.60 more. WOW 3 dollors more to run a tank of 91. You can't have your cake & eat it too. This is the real world & were all dealing with high gas prices. If 3 dollors for every tank of gas will put you in financial ruin then pick the economy tune.
Actually it IS built to run on 87 octane. Check the manual and it warns anything above could potentially damage the engine. While that's gestapo to me, it could actually hold some smidge of truth in some cases. High start up idle to reach operating speed, excuse me, is stupid. The car will reach that speed after running at a lower RPM or just driving period. Middle of summer doesn't require a 2k starting idle. Speed limiter is set at 120mph on a duratec 2.3L. It's know fact. I doubt the engine would run well on 85. Oh, and driving style compared to performance are two different things. The reason I asked in the first case was that since the suggested octane to operate the duratec on is 87, then why a tune set for 87 can't be feesable. Nothing about financial decisions regarding it.
 

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ITs set to run on 87 because of gas price. Thats the factory tune, which is generic. Its real safe and gets good MPG. Yes you can get a 87 tune, but that just about defeats the purpose. If it saves you a little bit of gas it still wont make up for the price you have in the tuner and tune (unless you have the car for 10yrs). Now, If you want more performance also, and get tunes for each then it would make sense.
I think you asked a good question and am not trying to put it down, just incase it comes across that way.

I dont think you would see detonation. The stock compression shouldnt detonate on 87 even with a 91 tune. The difference is timing. Not cam timing but spark timing. With 91 octane you can better time efficiency. 91 octane is much more stable then 87 so you can afford to adjust timing to make the motor more efficient. By doing this though you come closer to pushing the tune to far and making the motor very inefficient. (dont quote me on any of this, im going out on a limb here.) The key is efficiency in both power and MPG. That is what the tune adjusts in a whole. With just a 87octane tune, you do not get anything but the factory tuning holes filled in. Where FOrd may have been over conservative so to speak.
THat comes from what I have read, seen, and my own conclusions. It may be wrong, but its my best attempt to explain what I know.
I have a Zetec, that is tuned. I have found that I get better gas mileage on 93 (in ohio) then on either 87 or 89. I logged it and found that the mileage was so much better that I saved money by buying 93 fuel at 20cents more a gallon.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
zetecfreak said:
ITs set to run on 87 because of gas price. Thats the factory tune, which is generic. Its real safe and gets good MPG. Yes you can get a 87 tune, but that just about defeats the purpose. If it saves you a little bit of gas it still wont make up for the price you have in the tuner and tune (unless you have the car for 10yrs). Now, If you want more performance also, and get tunes for each then it would make sense.
I think you asked a good question and am not trying to put it down, just incase it comes across that way.

I dont think you would see detonation. The stock compression shouldnt detonate on 87 even with a 91 tune. The difference is timing. Not cam timing but spark timing. With 91 octane you can afford to retard the spark timing a bit to let the motor use more of the stroke. (dont quote me on any of this, im going out on a limb here.) This combined with added and or decreased fuel creates more power and makes the motor more efficient. With just a 87octane tune, you do not get anything but the factory tuning holes filled in. Where FOrd may have been over conservative so to speak.
THat comes from what I have read, seen, and my own conclusions. It may be wrong, but its my best attempt to explain what I know.
I have a Zetec, that is tuned. I have found that I get better gas mileage on 93 (in ohio) then on either 87 or 89. I logged it and found that the mileage was so much better that I saved money by buying 93 fuel at 20cents more a gallon.
Now that's the kind of answer I was expecting. Something to the point and rather informative. I can see the point in the performance but I just wasn't sure how well the differences would be seen between 87 and a higher octane. Unfortunately all Illinois and I think Indina, close to me, is 91 octane but that should be okay. What about the other options zetec? Think I should lay off eliminating the egr as well? I don't hear anything good about them really. I understand the Focus setup is more for emissions so hence, reburn exhaust and make things cleaner. However, if I eliminate that, won't it eliminate some of the bog and perhaps free up some power or mileage? Out on a limb with this one. Just trying to figure what options would benefit me most on an Xcal.
 

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In all honesty I do not know about the EGR. It was run on some Foci and not others. I dont think it would hurt as long as done properly. I would eliminate it. That would be one less thing to have to worry about later.

I do think though that you should not lower your start up RPMs. In the summer it dosent matter, but in the winter the block gets very cold. When first started it takes the oil (which when cold is a bit thicker), and the block a while to come to a good temp. What happens is the cold metal heats up fast when you just go drive it from plain start up. Then it can expand or warp which is BAD. It may never happen this is true, but It could. I dont know how cold your winters are, but here in Ohio they can get nasty. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #13
zetecfreak said:
In all honesty I do not know about the EGR. It was run on some Foci and not others. I dont think it would hurt as long as done properly. I would eliminate it. That would be one less thing to have to worry about later.

I do think though that you should not lower your start up RPMs. In the summer it dosent matter, but in the winter the block gets very cold. When first started it takes the oil (which when cold is a bit thicker), and the block a while to come to a good temp. What happens is the cold metal heats up fast when you just go drive it from plain start up. Then it can expand or warp which is BAD. It may never happen this is true, but It could. I dont know how cold your winters are, but here in Ohio they can get nasty. LOL
Yeah, Illinois is bad too sometimes. Past winter wasn't crap though. Reason I asked about the rev's though is the start up isn't as bad as the hanging rev's that I'd like to eliminate, or like I said, if it could be set to idle lower than 1.5 - 2k revs would be a thought. I know driving a cold engine isn't good to do with no oil in the pan from the cold, but didn't think the rev's needed to sit that high.

[???:)]
 

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They dont as long as you give the motor enough time to warm up. While you are smarter than the average Foci driver, most are not. The granny getting in her wagon dosent want to wait. So, Ford did the rev high thing to help.
Also, while it does rev higher it is under no load, so it dosent use as much gas as one may think.
With my tune it is lowered, sits a lil over 1k, then drops to 850ish. My Idle is set a little higher because of eventual Cams.LOL.

If you get ahold of Tom he can hook you up with what you want, and what you need. He knows more than anyone I can think of, and Ive seen some of his work in person. He is not the only one who does it (dont want to sound like suck up BITCH or anything) but in my personal opinion he has the greatest knowledge for tuning Foci.
 

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tdkaye1 said:
Actually it IS built to run on 87 octane. Check the manual and it warns anything above could potentially damage the engine. While that's gestapo to me, it could actually hold some smidge of truth in some cases. High start up idle to reach operating speed, excuse me, is stupid. The car will reach that speed after running at a lower RPM or just driving period. Middle of summer doesn't require a 2k starting idle. Speed limiter is set at 120mph on a duratec 2.3L. It's know fact. I doubt the engine would run well on 85. Oh, and driving style compared to performance are two different things. The reason I asked in the first case was that since the suggested octane to operate the duratec on is 87, then why a tune set for 87 can't be feesable. Nothing about financial decisions regarding it.
If its BUILT to run on 87 then why are duratecs running on 91? It is factory TUNED to run on 87. Same hardware different software. Who dosen't know what the manual says. The warnings are there for the ignorant drivers who dont back off when the engine is experencing preignition or detno. Any octane can potentially cause detno. Its all in the tune. I'v had five focuses since 99 & live where the winters are harsh & the high start up idles have not caused any ill effects to any of them, even on the two ones I'v put on over 100k miles on. Stupid? no, it wont run in sub zero conditions @ a low rpm until it warms up, no excuse. None of mine start @ 2k rpm in middle of summer, I dont know why yours does. I never said the duratec's speed limiter was'nt set @ 120mph. If you dont think it will run well on 85 which is 2 grades lower than 87 & zetecfreak said The stock compression should'nt detonate on 87 even with a 91 tune which is 4 grades lower & you said thats the kind of answer you were expecting I dont get it. Performance is a driving style. I was trying to answer the reasons you'd asked, I did'nt expect you to phychoanalyze my answers. A lot of people think a mechanic with over 30 years experence can be informative too, not only sugar coated answers.
 

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Are you talking Xcal or Xcal2? If you want an XCal2, do something like what I did.

87 octane tune for gas mileage
93 octane tune for street performace. I'll be dyno'ing this next week
100+ octane tune for nitrous.

*going to try to con tom into letting me get some tunes from him next weekend [paranoid] *

The reason for the 87 tune is this. The best gas mileage I'd gotten in the focus was 40mpg due to a bad cylinder head temp sensor, which caused a lean condition. Average on the highway was actually around 35-36. The gas mileage tune skidmarkracing gave me got me up to around 40mpg consistently on the highway, even with my mods.

Talk to Tom. He'll point you in the right direction.

good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Fordcus Fan said:
If its BUILT to run on 87 then why are duratecs running on 91? It is factory TUNED to run on 87. Same hardware different software. Who dosen't know what the manual says. The warnings are there for the ignorant drivers who dont back off when the engine is experencing preignition or detno. Any octane can potentially cause detno. Its all in the tune. I'v had five focuses since 99 & live where the winters are harsh & the high start up idles have not caused any ill effects to any of them, even on the two ones I'v put on over 100k miles on. Stupid? no, it wont run in sub zero conditions @ a low rpm until it warms up, no excuse. None of mine start @ 2k rpm in middle of summer, I dont know why yours does. I never said the duratec's speed limiter was'nt set @ 120mph. If you dont think it will run well on 85 which is 2 grades lower than 87 & zetecfreak said The stock compression should'nt detonate on 87 even with a 91 tune which is 4 grades lower & you said thats the kind of answer you were expecting I dont get it. Performance is a driving style. I was trying to answer the reasons you'd asked, I did'nt expect you to phychoanalyze my answers. A lot of people think a mechanic with over 30 years experence can be informative too, not only sugar coated answers.
91 octane won't make my engine run any better. See microtonal's post concerning octane ratings guide. I never said it won't detonate at any octance, matter of fact I never brought it up. 5 Foci in 7 years, wtf do you do to them? Alot of other members here have stated that their duratecs also start with high idles, 1.5k - 2k at start up, so it doesn't seem like it's unheard of, but I wasn't refering to a "problem" with high start up, just doesn't seem like it should and I'd prefer to lower that. No different than getting in the car and racing the engine to warm up faster. You stated know the limits of the Duratec, and I doubt above the speed limiter (another item I refered to) that engine would have any problems with proper maintenance. Chicago does not have 85 octane, so there is no point in discussing it. I know plenty of mechanics and everyone will give me a different answer for the same question.

Oh, and I was refering to the Xcal 2 blaz.
That's kind of what I'm thinking of but not running nitrous, so I think for FI a 91 will be fine. Was just wondering if I could get away with 87 though. I think I got my conclusion though. Thanks everyone.
[thumb]
 

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tdkaye1 said:
91 octane won't make my engine run any better. See microtonal's post concerning octane ratings guide. I never said it won't detonate at any octance, matter of fact I never brought it up. 5 Foci in 7 years, wtf do you do to them? Alot of other members here have stated that their duratecs also start with high idles, 1.5k - 2k at start up, so it doesn't seem like it's unheard of, but I wasn't refering to a "problem" with high start up, just doesn't seem like it should and I'd prefer to lower that. No different than getting in the car and racing the engine to warm up faster. You stated know the limits of the Duratec, and I doubt above the speed limiter (another item I refered to) that engine would have any problems with proper maintenance. Chicago does not have 85 octane, so there is no point in discussing it. I know plenty of mechanics and everyone will give me a different answer for the same question.

Oh, and I was refering to the Xcal 2 blaz.
That's kind of what I'm thinking of but not running nitrous, so I think for FI a 91 will be fine. Was just wondering if I could get away with 87 though. I think I got my conclusion though. Thanks everyone.
[thumb]
It will run better with a 91 tune. You had the question about using 91 octane & your telling me to read the octane ratings guide? I know you did'nt say it would'nt detonate @ any octane. After 100k miles I traded my 2000 for a 01 S2, then after 100k on my S2 I traded it for a 03 SVT & also bought a 03 zx5 so I would'nt put too many miles on my SVT. two years later I found a 2000 for only 4k. I still have the latter 3. As you can tell buy now I dont know much about the 05+ mazda/foci. Just using the 85 as a reference. If you knew you'd get a different answer from different mechanics, what made you think it would be different here? BTW your welcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Fordcus Fan said:
It will run better with a 91 tune. You had the question about using 91 octane & your telling me to read the octane ratings guide? I know you did'nt say it would'nt detonate @ any octane. After 100k miles I traded my 2000 for a 01 S2, then after 100k on my S2 I traded it for a 03 SVT & also bought a 03 zx5 so I would'nt put too many miles on my SVT. two years later I found a 2000 for only 4k. I still have the latter 3. As you can tell buy now I dont know much about the 05+ mazda/foci. Just using the 85 as a reference. If you knew you'd get a different answer from different mechanics, what made you think it would be different here? BTW your welcome.
My question wasn't will it run BETTER on 91. My question was, was 91 required. I ask in a forum to get more answers and more idea of what to look for rather than wasting time going to each mechanic or calling each up for their "versions" of what they think. Welcome for what? Being a prick? K, thanks.
 

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You did say thanks EVERYONE. I'm just stating FACTS, whether you belive them or not I could a shi#. If you have to resort to name calling, then your mentally weaker than most on the form. Don't be mad cause theres smarter people here when it comes to tunning your focus.[bawling]
 
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