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I was really excited about this thread and was really looking forward to it, but the fact that a tune was used to test the bigger throttle body was a bummer. BTW the top off tune is not cheap, I am having second thoughts after seeing the results. This result tells me in-order to get a net gain of 3lb-ft and 6-7hp, I need to spend ~$500 for tune(tune+tuner device) + ~$120 for the TB. I don't think it is a good value for the money.

Mine is a flex-fuel car, 5-speed, it does much better with a full tank of E-85. (Without a tune).
 

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Most of us were asking if the TB added power stock. It was tested with a specific tune for the larger TB. We have also removed the snorkel, placed in a high-flow drop in filter and the computer (stock tune) adjusted to the increased airflow with ease. So yes, the ECU is capable of adjusting to airflow without an afternarket tune. That is a cheap power mod; you pay for the filter and you get about ~8whp proven by dynos. It would be a whole other story if we had to also purchase a $400+ tune to then get that power.

People wanted to know if this would be another cheap power replacement part. Not a $400+ part where you pay for the larger TB and a tune for it. Not to mention, you will only get those power gains under the same conditions and mods as the test car:



Shade-10 and Tom are both correct. You will make some power if your car is heavily modified and tuned for the TB, but you will not make anywhere near the same gains if you have a stock car.
I do agree with your point.
 

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That's okay. It's not for everyone budget.

But... nobody is buying tuner and tune just for a bigger TB. Most people that are buying that are heavily modified or have plans to do so. And with the $200 we can include the TB tune in that price.

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Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

When we get the MST boot, we will do something along the same lines. But will provide temperatures. We may even have stock with no tune vs TB + MST intake with no tune vs TB and MST intake with tune.

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

When we get the MST boot, we will do something along the same lines. But will provide temperatures. We may even have stock with no tune vs TB + MST intake with no tune vs TB and MST intake with tune.

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Thanks for the update, yes I would really be interested in the test for stock TB + stock boot vs 63mm TB + MST hose, WITHOUT TUNE. I am not yet in a position to afford a tune for my car, hence working on cheap available mods one at a time.
 

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We get it. We've been there before. Stay tuned for more info. MST said they'll next batch should be available next week for purchasing.

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Also, our testing was not catering to the non tuned crowd. We were catering to people who have our tune, want to be tuned, or have another tuning company they tune with. We were providing info on the TB and TB tune that we sell. We wanted to show that there are gains with our tune and TB and that's why we sell it.

-snip-

It seems that people are interested in doing the TB modification without a tune so we will do the next testing for those of which want that info.

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Thats all fine and dandy, but you have to understand that most owners do not have a tune for their car. I can see how someone coming into a thread with a dynograph that shows gains for a part could be misled because it is done with a tune, and several other significant modifications.

Perhaps put a more noticeable disclaimer at the top? And like I said--and RDC themselves--you will need a larger exhaust to gain the same output. This part is not a cheap part: at minimum it requires a tune, and then a catback exhaust system of a larger diameter. That's the point I'm trying to make.
 

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Here's my thing. Focus owners expect to see MASSIVE gains from mods like this when in reality, this mod isn't JUST for HP. Throttle response is very important, especially out on the track. (I can attest to that) Will you notice 3-6 hp on the butt dyno? Probably not. Throttle response though? Heck yeah you will.

Another point: If you are doing modifications like this, I would expect people to be tuned already. Why would you NOT be tuned if you plan on modifying parts that are going to change AFRs and IATs? I don't think people really understand how much tunes take advantage of these figures to help the car run better. Just like with ANY other bolt-on modification, you don't NEED a tune, but damnit you'd be stupid not to if you want to take full advantage of modifications.

Last point: Tom is ALWAYS pushing about modifications NEEDING tunes to get full benefits from them. Why is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN, you decided to chime in about NOT needing a tune? RIDICULOUS
 

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Thats all fine and dandy, but you have to understand that most owners do not have a tune for their car. I can see how someone coming into a thread with a dynograph that shows gains for a part could be misled because it is done with a tune, and several other significant modifications.

Perhaps put a more noticeable disclaimer at the top? And like I said--and RDC themselves--you will need a larger exhaust to gain the same output. This part is not a cheap part: at minimum it requires a tune, and then a catback exhaust system of a larger diameter. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Everything is typed and and listed. It states when the tune was applied during the dyno sessions.

Also, this is for the tuned people and gives people more of a want to get a tune. Think about the community that is already tuned, they are jumping for joy knowing that there are gains.

If it were the opposite and we never uploaded the TB tune, the ones tuned would be sad because they didnt see a dyno with the tune.

Its either we make the non tuned community happy or the tuned community happy. What we did, made the tuned community happy.

And back to why I said we will do both tuned and non tuned dynos next for MST boot do we can have both communities satisfied. We werent trying to let people down, we were just showing the possibilities you had with our tune and bigger TB.

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Here's my thing. Focus owners expect to see MASSIVE gains from mods like this when in reality, this mod isn't JUST for HP. Throttle response is very important, especially out on the track. (I can attest to that) Will you notice 3-6 hp on the butt dyno? Probably not. Throttle response though? Heck yeah you will.

Another point: If you are doing modifications like this, I would expect people to be tuned already. Why would you NOT be tuned if you plan on modifying parts that are going to change AFRs and IATs? I don't think people really understand how much tunes take advantage of these figures to help the car run better. Just like with ANY other bolt-on modification, you don't NEED a tune, but damnit you'd be stupid not to if you want to take full advantage of modifications.

Last point: Tom is ALWAYS pushing about modifications NEEDING tunes to get full benefits from them. Why is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN, you decided to chime in about NOT needing a tune? RIDICULOUS
How is it stupid? The ECU is capable of adjusting to the new AFR and IAT. Are you gonna buy a tune to get those scwheet gains from a drop in filter? No; because the ECU adjusts to it, hence why it gained more WHP on a stock tune. I dont think people understand how capable modern ECUs to small adjustments.

Edit:

And back to why I said we will do both tuned and non tuned dynos next for MST boot do we can have both communities satisfied. We werent trying to let people down, we were just showing the possibilities you had with our tune and bigger TB.
Yes, I agree. I appreciate the transparency and honesty.
 

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Here's my thing. Focus owners expect to see MASSIVE gains from mods like this when in reality, this mod isn't JUST for HP. Throttle response is very important, especially out on the track. (I can attest to that) Will you notice 3-6 hp on the butt dyno? Probably not. Throttle response though? Heck yeah you will.

Another point: If you are doing modifications like this, I would expect people to be tuned already. Why would you NOT be tuned if you plan on modifying parts that are going to change AFRs and IATs? I don't think people really understand how much tunes take advantage of these figures to help the car run better. Just like with ANY other bolt-on modification, you don't NEED a tune, but damnit you'd be stupid not to if you want to take full advantage of modifications.

Last point: Tom is ALWAYS pushing about modifications NEEDING tunes to get full benefits from them. Why is it that ALL OF A SUDDEN, you decided to chime in about NOT needing a tune? RIDICULOUS
I am all bout tuning for parts that need tuning , larger TB , UDP , TB Spacers , and many more things dont need a tune , shops like to say they do so they can sell more tunes , its like shops that sell MPG tunes and Performance tunes and charge for both if the tuner does his job you get both in the same tune but they sell them separate so they can charge for both

This was all about testing the TB when I vigorously mentioned how the testing for the TB was done wrong now its a we were testing the TB and Tune and we now sell a TB Tune upgrade , This was all BS and turned into we always mend it to be a TB/Tune test , that isnt what mike said many time defending the way he did the testing

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Says right in the description "Devil Tuned max rpm 6900 tune only adjusted for throttle body flow difference." Both tunes are otherwise identical. And if a customer buys the TB from us and is already tuned by us tune update is free. ...

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That's okay. It's not for everyone budget.

But... nobody is buying tuner and tune just for a bigger TB. Most people that are buying that are heavily modified or have plans to do so. And with the $200 we can include the TB tune in that price.
No there not , anyone that reads this now feels they need a tune to run the TB , HELLO ! thats what you guys are pushing , mike has said many times now a tune IS needed for the TB which is pure BS

Most buying the 63mm TB are guys that are not modding and wanting to change things on there cars that are cheap , look good and to brag about , now whit what mike is saying you have to have a tune as well to run the 63mm TB

You can say what you want to cover your butts , anyone that reads this will see mike said this was a TB test not a TB/Tune test , now you the rdc PR guy is saying it was a TB/Tune test

Tom
 

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Says right in the description "Devil Tuned max rpm 6900 tune only adjusted for throttle body flow difference." Both tunes are otherwise identical. And if a customer buys the TB from us and is already tuned by us tune update is free. ...
LOL , LOL Now your saying the tunes are " otherwise identical " then why change the tune other then to make the TB you sell look better to increase sales of the TB and the Tune

What other reason would there be ?????????????

Tom
 

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The dyno that was done is done. It was a dyno that tested the stock vs big tb with tune. That's what the dyno shows and that is what we are saying it shows.

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Discussion Starter #57
LOL , LOL Now your saying the tunes are " otherwise identical " then why change the tune other then to make the TB you sell look better to increase sales of the TB and the Tune



What other reason would there be ?????????????



Tom
Tunes were exactly the same except for adjustment for TB flow/diameter.... said that in the initial post from the start....

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Discussion Starter #59
Will the 2.3 throttle body work on a 2008 2.0?
As long as 2008 is drive by wire it should, although it hasn't been tested yet, also depends on internal control on TB itself

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