Focus Fanatics Forum banner

21 - 40 of 71 Posts

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
Its like slapping a header on the MK3 and not tuning for it, going lean is a bad thing. You adjust the tune for the increase in TB diameter for higher airflow.. common sense when tuning for a larger TB...
Were not talking a Header , were talking a TB thats 8mm , .310 thats about 45-48 sheets of note book paper larger then stock

My goodness just how lean you think it would of gone , ECU can adjust for fueling for small % , No Tune was needed to test the TB

Cant believe your comparing a header to a 8mm larger TB as for whats needed for tuning

Like I said you sell these so sure there is a gain

Tom
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Were not talking a Header , were talking a TB thats 8mm , .310 thats about 45-48 sheets of note book paper larger then stock



My goodness just how lean you think it would of gone , ECU can adjust for fueling for small % , No Tune was needed to test the TB



Cant believe your comparing a header to a 8mm larger TB as for whats needed for tuning



Like I said you sell these so sure there is a gain



Tom
Mmmhmmm sure. You had no gains, I did... oh well. Let the customer decide. All data was provided, so they can make their own decisions.

owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
I'm just glad theres a gain. Whether it was tuned or not. I'll take all the more horsepower I can get with these 2.0.
Yes something made a gain but from what ???

No logs posted so cant tell IAT or ECT , Out side temps these 3 things alone can make 1.5 to 3 HP differences

Then the TB and Tune was changed ???

All this is great for you guys selling them but far to many things in the mix to actually say if it was TB , Tune , other ???

Tom
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
Mmmhmmm sure. You had no gains, I did... oh well. Let the customer decide. All data was provided, so they can make their own decisions.
Sure you did you sell the parts , I dont and didnt see any gains worth changing the TB for HUMMMMMM

I have no skin in this game , if you want to pass of they make more HP/TQ you do so , I wont do that to my Customers

Tom
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Yes something made a gain but from what ???



No logs posted so cant tell IAT or ECT , Out side temps these 3 things alone can make 1.5 to 3 HP differences



Then the TB and Tune was changed ???



All this is great for you guys selling them but far to many things in the mix to actually say if it was TB , Tune , other ???



Tom
Only thing adjusted in tune was for TB.... nothing else adjusted. You can take my word or not, which you will not... no one can tune as good as you we all know this.... so how did we get gains? Maybe Fiary Dust, or the 3-6hp shot of NOS.....

owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Yes something made a gain but from what ???

No logs posted so cant tell IAT or ECT , Out side temps these 3 things alone can make 1.5 to 3 HP differences

Then the TB and Tune was changed ???

All this is great for you guys selling them but far to many things in the mix to actually say if it was TB , Tune , other ???

Tom
Ect was varying between 190 and 200 whole time, hood open and standard squirrel cage fan blowing at nose of car, IAT varied very little... and outside temp was same temp for the hr and a half O was on the dyno....
Logs are what is sent to us to adjust the tune for power and efficiency... but like I said, whatever.
Sure you did you sell the parts , I dont and didnt see any gains worth changing the TB for HUMMMMMM

I have no skin in this game , if you want to pass of they make more HP/TQ you do so , I wont do that to my Customers

Tom
If there was no gain, I would STOP selling the part...

owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
There is many ways to get 3+/- HP gains other then the TB

Tune
IAT
ECT
Fan positioning etc , etc ,

Tom


etc etc etc
Keep trying to justify that to yourself

owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
So you dont think

Tune
IAT
ECT
Fan positioning

Can change the dyno results by 3+/- HP , you have a TON to learn about the DynoJet Dyno and how important those 4 things can change the outcome , just the IAT , ECT , Fan can make a HUGH difference

I dont have to justify it to my self I have tested it , I have seen what effects they have on the dyno

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Sure you did you sell the parts , I dont and didnt see any gains worth changing the TB for HUMMMMMM

I have no skin in this game , if you want to pass of they make more HP/TQ you do so , I wont do that to my Customers

Tom
Actually by admitting you needed the tune to see any gains he is just as likely to be hurting sales. It would be a lot easier to push a $125 part if it didnt need an additional $500 worth of tuning to make it work.
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
Actually by admitting you needed the tune to see any gains he is just as likely to be hurting sales. Its would be a lot easier to push a $125 part if it didnt need an additional $500 worth of tuning to make it work.
You do have a point but on top of that you dont " need " a tune to run the larger TB

Tom
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Actually by admitting you needed the tune to see any gains he is just as likely to be hurting sales. Its would be a lot easier to push a $125 part if it didnt need an additional $500 worth of tuning to make it work.
I leave it up for the customer to decide.. if they don't want to buy, don't buy.. exactly the point. However if people are already tuned, a top off tune is what's needed and that's cheap. When I added the TB without the adjustment, with cruise on it would surge as it was looking for the desired air flow, when set for the OE one on the 63, obviously it couldn't settle in

owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
So you dont think

Tune
IAT
ECT
Fan positioning

Can change the dyno results by 3+/- HP , you have a TON to learn about the DynoJet Dyno and how important those 4 things can change the outcome , just the IAT , ECT , Fan can make a HUGH difference

I dont have to justify it to my self I have tested it , I have seen what effects they have on the dyno

Tom
Yes, you are the Dyno and tuning GOD...




owner: Rebel Devil Customs
Red Devil STedan #1
Project NAS-T
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
Tom your nuts. So your acting like mods don't need tunes to get their full potential out of them. So with out tuning there would be no gains on most mods...
Where did I say that , are you saying that a mod that might add 1-3hp needs a tune , no it doesnt

There are hundreds of guys running , TB , hoses , UPP , spacers that dont have or need a Tune in them

Adding parts that make little to no gains if any dont need a tune and why would they ?

Parts like cold air intake , header , header and Exh , cams they need tuning they add performance

A TB doesnt require a tune to see if it makes gains or not

Drop in filter does show gains , this means it moves more air through the engine , drop in filter doesnt require a tune ????? Why would a TB ????

Tom
 

·
FF Affiliate
Joined
·
30,151 Posts
There seems to be a lot of confusion about this test maybe it was on my part , an employee of rdc posted this " our goal was to see what gains we could get with big TB and tune "
So this test wasnt for just the TB , thats where the confusion came in

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Tom your nuts. So your acting like mods don't need tunes to get their full potential out of them. So with out tuning there would be no gains on most mods...
Most of us were asking if the TB added power stock. It was tested with a specific tune for the larger TB. We have also removed the snorkel, placed in a high-flow drop in filter and the computer (stock tune) adjusted to the increased airflow with ease. So yes, the ECU is capable of adjusting to airflow without an afternarket tune. That is a cheap power mod; you pay for the filter and you get about ~8whp proven by dynos. It would be a whole other story if we had to also purchase a $400+ tune to then get that power.

People wanted to know if this would be another cheap power replacement part. Not a $400+ part where you pay for the larger TB and a tune for it. Not to mention, you will only get those power gains under the same conditions and mods as the test car:

2012 NA 2.0 Focus
Fuel: 87 Octane with 2 gallons of E85
6509 plugs with approx 50k on them
Stock intake boot, Green filter drop in, approx 10 months since cleaned
Oil change with motorcraft 2 weeks ago
Thermal R&D 3" catback
Wheels are Enkie VR5 17x8 with 245/45 Nitto rubber
Shade-10 and Tom are both correct. You will make some power if your car is heavily modified and tuned for the TB, but you will not make anywhere near the same gains if you have a stock car.
 
21 - 40 of 71 Posts
Top