So recently bought a 03 Focus ZX5 Hatchback. I was averaging 25-26hwy thought it could be better. So I seafoamed it down the intake, then changed the fuel filter, tranny filter, air filter and changed/upgraded the plugs to autolite iridium plugs. Now for the last to fills, 22.36-22.62 mpg wtf happened? Normally it increases after maintenance. HELP
22 mpg huh?
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I was running NGK Iridium on my SVT focus. I changed them to AZFS22C (Motorcraft copper plugs) and I am averaging about 26 miles a gallon. I gapped them to .060. The only problem is that you have to replace them every 15k miles. But at a price of less then $2 at advance auto parts, that's still cheaper than iridium plugs. I also changed the plug wires to MSD ignition wires. Hope this helps.
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i get about 21-23 mpg city and about 25-35 highway depending on speed, wind and other weather conditions. 35 was the MAX btw its usually ~30
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That's horrible mileage. You should be getting better than that.
Yes, standard plugs- not platinum or iridium- will give the strongest spark. Platinum family metals (iridium has the same properties) are good for not fouling over 100k miles and were originally developed for airplane engines. The conductivity of plat and irid is around 15% as compared to iron which is around 40%, copper is 98%.
There's a lot to plugs that most people don't fully understand. If you don't, then I'd do some research on plug heat range for kicks.
I DOUBT that changing plugs will help you much. I just wanted to clarify that the iridium craze is merely marketing. You should check your gap though as "pre-gapped" plugs are highly unreliable even though you pay $$$ for them.
Now, what you should do is clean your MAF. You can do this with spray MAF cleaner or a Q-tip and alcohol. Check the stickied posts above for more information. Afterwards, I'd reset the A/F ratio by warming the engine up, then removing the neg terminal on the battery for 10 mins. Now, replace the terminal, and start the vehicle without touching the accel. Allow the engine to idle for 6-7 mins, and take note of the idle speed. After the engine drops out of startup idle, it will idle for 5 mins while testing the A/F ratio. You might notice slight fluctuations in the idle, then the idle will drop 200 rpm or so when it's finished. The PCM will be timing this test.
After that, give it a week to see if your mileage increases. Afterwards, we'll start looking for funky things like clogged mufflers, vacuum leaks, or crap in the air intake.
Yes, standard plugs- not platinum or iridium- will give the strongest spark. Platinum family metals (iridium has the same properties) are good for not fouling over 100k miles and were originally developed for airplane engines. The conductivity of plat and irid is around 15% as compared to iron which is around 40%, copper is 98%.
There's a lot to plugs that most people don't fully understand. If you don't, then I'd do some research on plug heat range for kicks.
I DOUBT that changing plugs will help you much. I just wanted to clarify that the iridium craze is merely marketing. You should check your gap though as "pre-gapped" plugs are highly unreliable even though you pay $$$ for them.
Now, what you should do is clean your MAF. You can do this with spray MAF cleaner or a Q-tip and alcohol. Check the stickied posts above for more information. Afterwards, I'd reset the A/F ratio by warming the engine up, then removing the neg terminal on the battery for 10 mins. Now, replace the terminal, and start the vehicle without touching the accel. Allow the engine to idle for 6-7 mins, and take note of the idle speed. After the engine drops out of startup idle, it will idle for 5 mins while testing the A/F ratio. You might notice slight fluctuations in the idle, then the idle will drop 200 rpm or so when it's finished. The PCM will be timing this test.
After that, give it a week to see if your mileage increases. Afterwards, we'll start looking for funky things like clogged mufflers, vacuum leaks, or crap in the air intake.
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I have to agree that part or most of the problem is with the plugs. however if you want crazy good mpg you need to look into hydrogen injection.
ive always gotten around 25-30mpg hwy and i made a hydrogen kit and hooked it up. now i get 40-45 hwy as long as i keep it around 70mph.
all you need for the kit is some kind of jar 20+ oz, power and ground wire, toggle switch for interior of the car if you want it, rubber hose, stuff to mount the jar, water, baking soda, and stainless steel mesh plates. do NOT use copper. stainless will not corrode due to electrolosys. (bah check my spelling)
mount the jar, hook the powerwire from alternator to the stainless steel conductor, run the toggle switch if you decide to hook up to the battery instead of the alternator so it doesnt drain your battery.
make 2 holes in the lid of the jar and run the powerwire through one and put the hose in the other. run the hose into your intake.
i cannot stress enough to make sure the jar is firmly in place because you now have to put water in this jar. it would be bad if you went around a sharp curve and the jar tipped and you suck water through the intake, very very bad. i suggest putting very fine mesh screen of some sort in the top to help keep water from spashing up to the lid if youre an aggressive driver.
now once the water is in you add baking soda, which you add a current to and it will create hydrogen. the more good conductive metal surface area you have in the solution of water and baking soda the more hydrogen will be made per ammount of current. if you hook it to the battery it will be the same ammount constantly and you have to turn it off when you turn off the car otherwise it could cause problems if you leave it sitting for awhile because it will drain the battery as i said before or a possibly unsafe buildup of hydrogen could occur.
you will have 2 separated stainless conductor assemblies in the jar. one has positive wire going to it and the other has negative. the purpose is basically to make a circuit in the water.
the alternator is best because the ammount of hydrogen made varies depending on how many rpms it turns and it automatically cuts off when the car does. it is just a little more difficult to get to and that is why so many people run it off the battery.
The purpose of the baking soda is to keep everything clean and to make the water more conductive or in other words make higher amps because just plain old water isnt a good conductor of electricity.
use distilled drinking water out of a jug from a grocery store. tap water has too many impurities and wont yeild as much hydrogen.
you only need tiny ammounts of baking soda to make the process work. the more baking soda you add the higher the amps are. higher amps pull more from the alternator and will cause problems with the electronics operating in your car. check with a volt meter when you are adding the baking soda to make sure you have the right ammount. 12 volts and 10-20amps is where you want to be running off battery. 20-30amps off alternator. if you want higher amps from the alternator USE HEAVY GAUGE POWERWIRE. high amps are what cause electrical wires to get hot and catch on fire. avoid this by using heavier gauge wire.
VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
whynotthinkwhynot reminded me of something very big i forgot to add. taking in TOO MUCH hydrogen is very very bad. hydrogen burns much hotter than gasoline and the only purpose of this kit is to cut the ammount of gasoline used with hydrogen in its place. if you do this kit dont go getting greedy. the best you will get safely is around 45mpg if you are lucky. average for me is 35 40 and im pushing it a little bit. if you blow up your car because you are cranking 50 amps into the kit then its your own fault. rep to the whynot man for reminding me. very very inportant stuff there
anyway i might just make a write up of this. hope ive been helpful.
ive always gotten around 25-30mpg hwy and i made a hydrogen kit and hooked it up. now i get 40-45 hwy as long as i keep it around 70mph.
all you need for the kit is some kind of jar 20+ oz, power and ground wire, toggle switch for interior of the car if you want it, rubber hose, stuff to mount the jar, water, baking soda, and stainless steel mesh plates. do NOT use copper. stainless will not corrode due to electrolosys. (bah check my spelling)
mount the jar, hook the powerwire from alternator to the stainless steel conductor, run the toggle switch if you decide to hook up to the battery instead of the alternator so it doesnt drain your battery.
make 2 holes in the lid of the jar and run the powerwire through one and put the hose in the other. run the hose into your intake.
i cannot stress enough to make sure the jar is firmly in place because you now have to put water in this jar. it would be bad if you went around a sharp curve and the jar tipped and you suck water through the intake, very very bad. i suggest putting very fine mesh screen of some sort in the top to help keep water from spashing up to the lid if youre an aggressive driver.
now once the water is in you add baking soda, which you add a current to and it will create hydrogen. the more good conductive metal surface area you have in the solution of water and baking soda the more hydrogen will be made per ammount of current. if you hook it to the battery it will be the same ammount constantly and you have to turn it off when you turn off the car otherwise it could cause problems if you leave it sitting for awhile because it will drain the battery as i said before or a possibly unsafe buildup of hydrogen could occur.
you will have 2 separated stainless conductor assemblies in the jar. one has positive wire going to it and the other has negative. the purpose is basically to make a circuit in the water.
the alternator is best because the ammount of hydrogen made varies depending on how many rpms it turns and it automatically cuts off when the car does. it is just a little more difficult to get to and that is why so many people run it off the battery.
The purpose of the baking soda is to keep everything clean and to make the water more conductive or in other words make higher amps because just plain old water isnt a good conductor of electricity.
use distilled drinking water out of a jug from a grocery store. tap water has too many impurities and wont yeild as much hydrogen.
you only need tiny ammounts of baking soda to make the process work. the more baking soda you add the higher the amps are. higher amps pull more from the alternator and will cause problems with the electronics operating in your car. check with a volt meter when you are adding the baking soda to make sure you have the right ammount. 12 volts and 10-20amps is where you want to be running off battery. 20-30amps off alternator. if you want higher amps from the alternator USE HEAVY GAUGE POWERWIRE. high amps are what cause electrical wires to get hot and catch on fire. avoid this by using heavier gauge wire.
VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
whynotthinkwhynot reminded me of something very big i forgot to add. taking in TOO MUCH hydrogen is very very bad. hydrogen burns much hotter than gasoline and the only purpose of this kit is to cut the ammount of gasoline used with hydrogen in its place. if you do this kit dont go getting greedy. the best you will get safely is around 45mpg if you are lucky. average for me is 35 40 and im pushing it a little bit. if you blow up your car because you are cranking 50 amps into the kit then its your own fault. rep to the whynot man for reminding me. very very inportant stuff there
anyway i might just make a write up of this. hope ive been helpful.
Man, this really sounds very interesting. If you could take some pictures of the system and maybe make a step by step how-to, I would try on mine. Everything to get better mpg.
I got Iridium sparkplugs and for me they work perfect, have you checked your gap? Well, I have to say that I upgraded the plug wires too, maybe I could get better with stock. I am going to try these days.
Always great in your explanations whynotthinkwhynot, you should write a book, seriously.
I got Iridium sparkplugs and for me they work perfect, have you checked your gap? Well, I have to say that I upgraded the plug wires too, maybe I could get better with stock. I am going to try these days.
Always great in your explanations whynotthinkwhynot, you should write a book, seriously.
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hmm.......depending on how my foot likes it, I can get usually anywhere in the range of 22-28 mpg..... if you did seafoam, maybe it's not completely out of the system yet? and also I was gonna say, check the gap on your spark plugs...
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If you really want your hydrogen generator to work, you should use the field wire off the alternator. Amps are a result of applied voltage to X watts. (A=W/V) Watts don't change- unless the equipment changes. The field wire will vary voltage, higher voltage will lower the amps used. You should be able to estimate your amperage (load) using the formula Amps=Volts/Resistance (ohms). I would still use 11v to figure the load- like it was on a battery.
Other than that, from what I understand you should be careful of using too much hydrogen as it burns much hotter than gasoline. If what you have is working, and has been working, then you should be ok. For kicks, research "hydrogen cutting torch", as that is an easy HOH project.
I personally haven't tried hydrogen, but I have tried other things. I quit messing with acetone because it's a pain in the ass- not because it doesn't work. If you use too much, you lose MPG, and the effect is diminished when using E10 gasoline that is freaking everywhere now. Magnets work, but no magnetic fuel saver that you can purchase works. The magnets you have to use are simply too expensive for profit. The gains are not tremendous- merely 3 mpg on a Focus, I have no idea what it does on other vehicles because the van is down at the moment. I have high hopes for 5.
That might help the OP, but it's not his/her problem. For those of you who haven't been here that long- this happens EVERY YEAR. Winter screws fuel economy. With carburetors, winter helped- if you could get the darn thing started. Not so with EFI, especially EFI that varies fuel with ambient air temp to keep the A/F correct. Everyone's fuel economy goes down no matter what trick they are using. I block off my part of my radiator to increase the engine temps because I believe that my all aluminum engine is overcooled- and it does help with MPG. Not to mention my wife doesn't complain because the heat fires up much quicker.
Focusmanic- I'm sure some people would be interested in your project, but you can expect other people to be adamant about opposing it because Mythbusters (sponsored by BP) says it doesn't work. In fact, they said no gas saving tricks work, so just give up and invest in oil sometime before we elect another R president.
Other than that, from what I understand you should be careful of using too much hydrogen as it burns much hotter than gasoline. If what you have is working, and has been working, then you should be ok. For kicks, research "hydrogen cutting torch", as that is an easy HOH project.
I personally haven't tried hydrogen, but I have tried other things. I quit messing with acetone because it's a pain in the ass- not because it doesn't work. If you use too much, you lose MPG, and the effect is diminished when using E10 gasoline that is freaking everywhere now. Magnets work, but no magnetic fuel saver that you can purchase works. The magnets you have to use are simply too expensive for profit. The gains are not tremendous- merely 3 mpg on a Focus, I have no idea what it does on other vehicles because the van is down at the moment. I have high hopes for 5.
That might help the OP, but it's not his/her problem. For those of you who haven't been here that long- this happens EVERY YEAR. Winter screws fuel economy. With carburetors, winter helped- if you could get the darn thing started. Not so with EFI, especially EFI that varies fuel with ambient air temp to keep the A/F correct. Everyone's fuel economy goes down no matter what trick they are using. I block off my part of my radiator to increase the engine temps because I believe that my all aluminum engine is overcooled- and it does help with MPG. Not to mention my wife doesn't complain because the heat fires up much quicker.
Focusmanic- I'm sure some people would be interested in your project, but you can expect other people to be adamant about opposing it because Mythbusters (sponsored by BP) says it doesn't work. In fact, they said no gas saving tricks work, so just give up and invest in oil sometime before we elect another R president.
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i should send mythbusters an e-mail. it is true that you are biased when you are testing out fuel savers. if you want really good gas mileage you will subconsiously take it easier and therefore get better mileage. however when the fuel economy goes up by an easy 10mpg with you street racing off the same tank of gas i think it is obvious that it works. ill tell ya what. next focus fest we need to get some guys together and try to make slightly different variations of the hydrogen kit. the kit only goes on cars that are stock or very close to it. since we all drive the focus you can count on the fuel economy being close to identical. we get the caravan going with say 5 cars with hydrogen and 2 without and see who runs out of gas first. if every1 gets in line and stays at a constant speed on the highway we should get accurate results. i could do it myself but there is always that one jackhole who thinks its rigged. oh and by the way im glad you said something about hydrogen burning hotter. i completely left that tid bit out. ill edit it in. however the hydrogen kit is probably the most effective fuel economy booster out there period. but thats just my opinion.
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Not saying its a large part of the problem becuase I dont know when you changed everrything. But a little part of the problem is gas. What are you running ? 87? I know that as the price went down on gas so didnt the quality. From what I hear right now most gas at 87 is to crappy for them to stockpile which is part of the reason prices are going down more in the market than usual, less demand, and crappy fuel. Just saying.
I started running 89 now that its cheap my thought, hmm maybe its up to the old 87 standards?
I may be completly wrong on all of this but this is what I have heard and read on some news stATION websites.
Just my $.02
I started running 89 now that its cheap my thought, hmm maybe its up to the old 87 standards?
I may be completly wrong on all of this but this is what I have heard and read on some news stATION websites.
Just my $.02
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Hydrogen. . . Oh that's RICH!
Based on the setup you discuss you might be getting 50% efficiency. If you put 100 watt hours of energy into an electrolysis setup, and you burn the resulting oxygen and hydrogen, you might get 50 watt hours of energy. 50 watt loss due to heating the water in the jar.
Beyond that, he's suggesting doing it on a car (our Focus') that have notoriously weak alternators.
Bring it to a mechanic or someone who knows what they're doing and don't screw around with snake oil solutions. Don't you think that Honda would have added electrolysis to their engines if it improved mileage? Crap, if it weren't for the Corn lobby, we wouldn't have to deal with all that crap ethanol they're poisoning our cars and mileage with.
Based on the setup you discuss you might be getting 50% efficiency. If you put 100 watt hours of energy into an electrolysis setup, and you burn the resulting oxygen and hydrogen, you might get 50 watt hours of energy. 50 watt loss due to heating the water in the jar.
Beyond that, he's suggesting doing it on a car (our Focus') that have notoriously weak alternators.
Bring it to a mechanic or someone who knows what they're doing and don't screw around with snake oil solutions. Don't you think that Honda would have added electrolysis to their engines if it improved mileage? Crap, if it weren't for the Corn lobby, we wouldn't have to deal with all that crap ethanol they're poisoning our cars and mileage with.
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i'm subscribing to this thread because this whole hydrogen debate/info is very interesting to me
> i'm subscribing to this thread because this whole hydrogen debate/info is very interesting to me
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73223&page=8&highlight=hydrogen
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73223&page=8&highlight=hydrogen
> when the fuel economy goes up by an easy 10mpg with you street racing off the same tank of gas i think it is obvious that it works.
Considering the fact that GM and Chrysler are on the verge of bankruptcy, and that if they could increase the MPG of their cars by an easy 10 mpg they would immediately boost their sales substantially, one question comes to mind:
Why would they not eagerly adopt this if it really worked?
For that matter, why wouldn't Toyota, Nissan, Honda, or anyone else not immediately offer vehicles with this?
Until someone comes up with a good answer to those questions, this goes in the bin with the "moon landing was faked" stories.
Considering the fact that GM and Chrysler are on the verge of bankruptcy, and that if they could increase the MPG of their cars by an easy 10 mpg they would immediately boost their sales substantially, one question comes to mind:
Why would they not eagerly adopt this if it really worked?
For that matter, why wouldn't Toyota, Nissan, Honda, or anyone else not immediately offer vehicles with this?
Until someone comes up with a good answer to those questions, this goes in the bin with the "moon landing was faked" stories.
I think Mythbusters tested this and found out it was crap.
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ill answer your question with another question. why dont we have cars that run off pure hydrogen? there was a man in myrtle beach, NC that ran a welding shop. he used water to use his torch. one day the thought crossed his mind that he could make a car run off water in the same fashion. he drove from myrtle beach to LA, CA (COAST TO COAST) off of 30oz of water. When word got out about this he was in big doo doo because General Motors heard about it and sued him for everything he was worth because he based his hydrogen car off of a chevrolet cavalier. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but for some reason the big car companies avoid alternate fuels like the plague. i could ask the same question on pure electric cars, solar cars, even poop cars(yes it has been done, methane), ethanol/e-85(yes we have it but is it really taking off?), vegtable oil, so on and so forth. i could go on but i think you get the picture. most of the big guys arent even really trying to get more efficiency. if a bunch of half wit college punks can fabricate and hand build a world class supercar that runs off deisel fuel and will smoke a bugatti veyron while getting 50mpg for under $20,000 who is to say that one of the big motor companies couldnt do it as well. i believe honda bought the college kids copyright by the way almost 5 years ago and still havent done anything with it. go figure. ill see if i cant find links to videos on some of these topics.
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