[cwisham]

Hi All,
Took my Focus in to the local dealership for its first oil change at 10k last week. The service advisor told me I should have brought it in at 5k even though the computer warned me at 10k. Then he proceeded to try to up sell some BG additives. I declined the additives. He claimed the fuel system additive would clean the valves. I am I wrong that this is a direct injection engine?

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Old Goat Ninja]

10k is a loooooong time to go for first oil change. Ouch. Engine is breaking in and kinds of metal fragments in the oil during first change.

I can't answer about additives, because, well, I don't know haha.

 

[frizz]

I wouldn't be too worried. Modern oils and filters are pretty good. The additives are just the std fleecing that the stealership employees are trained to do.

 

[cwisham]

Is 10k the Ford recommended interval?

 

[Krustyz]

When I bought my 2014 about 2 months ago, the salesman was very certain that I needed to bring it back for its first change at 7500. He recommended after that to do it anytime between 5000-10000, but recommended 5-7000. To me that's too long, I'm still in the mentality of the 3 months 3,000 miles.

He told me that the 7500 was necessary due to the break in period. I would never rely on the computer to tell me. I know people who have seized their engine with that mentality... Really...

For me, after the first 7500 oil change ill be doing it every 5000. It's a good number to remember and it also is well below the maximum threshold.

For the additives, I'm not certain if it is necessary for these cars with direct injection and all, however it usually will clean up carbon build up and run just a hair smoother. In my cars I always do it, but with the new focus I'll do a bit of research first...either way it definitely wouldn't hurt anything, but if it isn't necessary, why buy it?

 

[SilverPony2001]

Is 10k the Ford recommended interval?

NORMAL SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE AND LOG
Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor®
Your vehicle is equipped with an Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor® that
determines when the engine oil needs to be changed based on how your
vehicle is used. By using several important factors in its calculations, the
monitor helps reduce the cost of owning your vehicle and reduce
environmental waste at the same time. This means you won’t have to
remember to change the oil on a mileage-based schedule; the vehicle lets
you know when an oil change is due by displaying ENGINE OIL
CHANGE DUE or OIL CHANGE REQUIRED in the information display.
The following table is intended to provide examples of vehicle use and
its impact on engine oil change intervals; it is provided as a guideline
only. Actual engine oil change intervals depend on several factors and
generally decrease with severity of use.
When to expect the OIL CHANGE REQUIRED message
Miles (km)

Vehicle use and examples
7500-10000
(12000-16000)
Normal
– Normal commuting with highway driving
– No, or moderate, load or towing
– Flat to moderately hilly roads
– No extended idling

5000-7499
(8000-11999)
Severe
– Moderate to heavy load or towing
– Mountainous or off-road conditions
– Extended idling
– Extended hot or cold operation

3000-4999
(4000-7999)
Extreme
– Maximum load or towing
– Extreme hot or cold operation

 

[wavsine]

He claimed the fuel system additive would clean the valves. I am I wrong that this is a direct injection engine?
Chris

The fuel injectors reside inside the combustion chamber. Fuel or fuel additive never washes over the valves therefore additives are not able to clean the valves on a DI engine.

 

[Elizabeth]

Oil change interval is one of those easy to argue things..
Like Octane rating...

Used to be the 3,000 mile interval. Everyone agreed on it. Then extended oils came along. then the car makers started suggesting longer intervals. Now they are at the long interval. And I think 10,000 Miles is too long.
(Unless you do nearly all freeway driving and rack up plenty of miles fast)
Otherwise a shorter interval might be better.

I found that changing the Mobile One at 5,000 miles in myMK3 was a little too long. IMO.
From the look and feel of the drained oil.
So next time I did it at 4,000 Miles and it seems fine.
So in the future I plan on 4K intervals. (Except I am trading the car in for a new ST soon)
(Or one year.. I do not drive a lot anymore now that I am retired)

And ALL my driving is short trips.. Very rare ever more than 20 miles between engine off.

 

[Squad-G]

I try to go each 5000 miles and I find that too much (it's limit). When I go at the dealer, they check for other thing too so it's worth it in my mind to go sooner then later.

 

[suss6052]

The fuel injectors reside inside the combustion chamber. Fuel or fuel additive never washes over the valves therefore additives are not able to clean the valves on a DI engine.

Well this is the case unless Ford is using their patented valve overlap method for ensuring that fuel is injected during valve overlap such that it gets sent into the intake past the valve to wash across the valve.

http://www.google.com/patents/US6178944

 

[cbdallas]

Judging from some of the pictures of intake valves I've seen over at FocusST.org, the valve overlap method isn't working very well.

While fuel additives likely won't touch valve deposits, a catch can system can help eliminate a majority of it.

 

[suss6052]

Judging from some of the pictures of intake valves I've seen over at FocusST.org, the valve overlap method isn't working very well.

While fuel additives likely won't touch valve deposits, a catch can system can help eliminate a majority of it.

The issue or problem seems to stem from the fact that they tend to drive quite hard and per the patent the valve overlap cleaning method only comes into play under light throttle/ steady state freeway driving when the car could go into a homogenous charge mode rather than the stratified charge mode.

A catch can doesn't seem to eliminate the build up either based on what I've seen/ heard over there also.

The torn down publicly tortured 3.5 L EcoBoost engine that was at NAIAS looked much cleaner than some of the engines I've seen over on FST.org

 

[dustey]

NORMAL SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE AND LOG
Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor®
Your vehicle is equipped with an Intelligent Oil-Life Monitor® that
determines when the engine oil needs to be changed based on how your
vehicle is used. By using several important factors in its calculations, the
monitor helps reduce the cost of owning your vehicle and reduce
environmental waste at the same time. This means you won’t have to
remember to change the oil on a mileage-based schedule; the vehicle lets
you know when an oil change is due by displaying ENGINE OIL
CHANGE DUE or OIL CHANGE REQUIRED in the information display.
The following table is intended to provide examples of vehicle use and
its impact on engine oil change intervals; it is provided as a guideline
only. Actual engine oil change intervals depend on several factors and
generally decrease with severity of use.
When to expect the OIL CHANGE REQUIRED message
Miles (km)

This. I went about 10,000 miles before my "Oil Change Required" light came on. The OCR light will also come on every 365 days, which is actually what caused my light to come on (was 9500 miles or so). If Ford's own oil life monitor isn't saying change the oil before 1yr/10,000 miles, that is good enough for me. Plus, I am leasing.

 

[wavsine]

Judging from some of the pictures of intake valves I've seen over at FocusST.org, the valve overlap method isn't working very well.

While fuel additives likely won't touch valve deposits, a catch can system can help eliminate a majority of it.

The 2.0 Duratec has a factory oil separator but it doesn't stop oil vapor which is still the biggest enemy of the valves in regard to carbon. At least the factory separator drains oil back to the crankcase so you don't have to empty it periodically.

I'm a broken record here but use the lowest NOACK oil you can get to minimize oil vapor.

Most aftermarket catch cans don't work for vapor except perhaps the Mann-Hummel Provent but then you still have to empty it and you have another filter to maintain.

Installing an eBay cheapo catch can is ill advised since the MK3 has a self draining oil separator already installed.

Factory oil separator:

 

[harrison.mike.j]

Well this is the case unless Ford is using their patented valve overlap method for ensuring that fuel is injected during valve overlap such that it gets sent into the intake past the valve to wash across the valve.

http://www.google.com/patents/US6178944

Thanks suss I found that quite interesting.

From my experience, and I've dropped a lot of oil used in varying conditions, the intelligent oil life monitors in today's vehicles tend to overestimate the condition of the oil. I'm not sure why, but they do. That being said, I've seen results onlinr from people sending in their oil after 3,000 and 5,000 mi, (especially with high end synthetics) for analysis after use and finding it was still acceptable. Oil changes and proper trans fluid service intervals tend to be cheap insurance against more expensive repairs. I prefer to get the oil out of my engine before I've squeezed every last penny out of it.

Many people come in with their minders telling them to "change oil now". They are probably at 7,500 mi (12,000km) by then and haven't been topping the oil up (some consumption is normal). The oil is at or below min, smelling burnt/well used, and is most likely beginning to leave deposits in small passageways that are used for hydraulic control of timing, high pressure direct injection pumps, etc.

At our dealership we currently recommend 3,000 mi (5,000km) intervals for 2007 and back, and 5,000 mi (8,000km) intervals for 2008 and up (using conventional oil) and all diesels. This has to do with engine technology advancing and being easier on the oil. I'm not sure on the details, but it may fall in line with Ford recommendations somewhere. The engines that are in the best shape and free from sludge and deposits, as well as remaining within normal consumption guidelines tend to be the ones that adhere to this schedule. As someone mentioned above as well, it's the right time to get in for inspections when you're on warranty as well. Also, proper brake services fall nicely on every third service. Believe me when I say this is the time you want to have a proper brake service, seized brakes and excessive wear are expensive. These recommendations are not overselling or excessive, I stick by them on my own vehicles and family vehicles because they work and I see the effects of not following them on a regular basis $$$.

We do not sell fuel system additives as all name brand pump gas contains additives which are acceptable to clean fuel systems, especially on low mileage vehicles. It may not hurt on higher mileage vehicles. GM recommends fuel system additive in the tank at every oil change on my father-in-law's 6.0L gas pickup to prevent buildup that they were prone to and I agree with following that recommendation as I've seen the failures associated with the buildup first hand. We do sell fuel system treatments for vehicles that fail emissions tests an have driveability concerns due to carbon buildup as they prove to be highly affective at eliminating the carbon deposits.

 

[wavsine]

Well this is the case unless Ford is using their patented valve overlap method for ensuring that fuel is injected during valve overlap such that it gets sent into the intake past the valve to wash across the valve.

http://www.google.com/patents/US6178944

That appears to be the older filing that Ford allowed to lapse:

"Expired due to failure to pay maintenance fee"

Here is the new one:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-..."&RS="Valve+cleaning+method+direct+injection"

But as you know, the point is moot. This, from another forum, by a respected poster named suss6052:

"It has not been shown to be used in practice in the control schema used with the EcoBoost I4 as there would have to be a control routine for periodic injection of fuel at least with the intake valves open on the compression stroke to push the fuel out of the cylinder and over the back of the valve."

I would assume the NA engine is the same.

 

[harrison.mike.j]

Patent status:

"Expired due to failure to pay maintenance fee"

Check the small question mark next to fee status.

"The fee status is an assumption and not a legal conclusion"

Oh Google. You know what they say about assuming...

 

[raptor1956]

I've been using synthetic oil since the mid 80's and used to change the oil right around 4000 miles. I've moved to a 5000 mile interval but have also gone almost 7000 miles on occasion given my tendency to drive easy highway miles versus hard city miles.

But, I think I'll try to stick to a 5000 mile interval for a couple reasons: first, 5000 miles isn't so often that I need to do it a lot and with a good synth oil and decent filter there's very little chance that the oil will degrade very much in this interval; and secondly, you're supposed to rotate your tires about every 5000 miles anyway so why not do both at the same time.


Brian

 

[cecil.bermudez]

This is one of the easiest things to do. I never thought placing clean oil in your car would be such a big conversation. We are talking about 50 bucks at the most every 3000 to 5000 miles to keep your car for years running in peak performance. Just do it. You have already invested enough in the car, do what it takes to maintain it.

 

[cecil.bermudez]

10000 miles is way to long for me....even 7500 is to long