Focus Fanatics Forum banner

41 - 60 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
On that one a vacuum leak was making the TB try to shut too much in an effort to shut off the excess air. The TB locked the butterfly at full shut yet was trying to shut it more, making the whole assembly vibrate to make a noise from the stepper motor trying to repeatedly shut the butterfly off. Fix the leak, problem stopped when the TB butterfly then opened back up to make a viable aircrack.

On yours if high mileage the fans kicking on will load the engine suddenly to try to die, at that time the engine will do a big drop low. On the former IAC ones I would artificially jack open the TB aircrack to re-align the IAC to go the other way instead, it works fine on my '00 model, the lunge and drop to die has pretty much quit and been fixed for years.

Electronic TB does not have that option though.

Check for vacuum leaks and PCV valve not stopped up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
You may have more than one issue. idle speed hanging high is TB too far open or a vacuum leak within idle fuel limits, when you leak past the limits the engine then tries to die instead of idle high. You have to sort out which issue it is. Changing the TB if one used same base gasket can do that, the old gasket leaks and adds to the problem by idle hanging high. The later TB is very susceptible to overtightening to stick too.

Normally, to cure an rpm drop from fans coming on you want the idle a bit high, but not high enough to make engine go high, it simply is enough to not have to make TB compensate by opening up, same as IAC not opening up (fast enough, there is some slight lag there, the rpm drop comes with the lag) and what I did to the '00. I basically opened it enough at TB to make the IAC think it needed to stay right where it was, (a neutral point of sorts, it didn't open or close) and the problem went away. The big drop comes when the controlling air method reacts to the fans coming on, the big load in power makes an older engine try to choke. I counteracted by making the engine harder to choke to begin with. The controlling air method whether IAC or TB is a bit slow, your rpm drop happens because it adjusts too slow there even if it eventually gets to the right speed, it takes too long. Why I pre-made up for it and already done.

If you have the same double fan assembly the early ones had, you can help out by putting a relay on one of them to stop both from coming on at once, one would come on and then the other separated by a couple seconds, that would help too. It lowers the electrical power load at fans on. I was going there but never had to do it, found the other way.

If you have idle hunting in speed with a new TB you have a vacuum leak, or possible inconsistent ignition. Hook up OBD reader on live data scanning and watch the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 and if it hangs too much below .5 volt you have a leak. Constantly adding fuel in trim is one too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
You MUST READ, I have already said how I did it. First paragraph post #41.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
At this point I'm gonna wrap it around a tree or trade it in for a fiesta 1.6 because I got one person saying it's my battery when it's not another saying something else and my in person mechanic saying it's my engine cooling fan pulling to much power when it kicks on because the motor for the fans old
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
It's likely a combination of both fan motor and engine age. The fan amp requirement goes up on older electric motors when the winding resistance goes up. The engines as well lose idle rollover torque due to ring and valve wear that lowers compression, the engine does not have as much 'uumph' at idle as it did new, that quality allowed the engine to power right through a power hit that temporarily lowers idle just for a fractional second.

Get the battery tested at a parts store for free, if it passes the loadtest at proper CCA (about 500 as a minimum) then it is NOT the battery. You can change battery all day long and not touch that issue at all, it has nothing to do with the battery.

What happens..................the fans come on and the sudden power hit drops the engine speed when the alt suddenly ramps way up on charging. The TB then tries to adjust the idle back up but it reacts too slow for the older engine as it moves incrementally, it has no idea of where it will stop so it goes slowly. The 'almost die' occurs in that spread of time before the TB takes full control at the proper open amount to establish a good constant rotational idle speed. A new tight fresh engine powers through that fractional second like it's not even there, older ones can't. Same thing happens with the sudden load of power steering.

I've argued for a long time there should be an 'older engine tune' made available by Ford for older cars based on things like this, they have it in their heads not to as not doing it sells more cars. My view is that they are walking away from money lying on the table by not doing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
It's likely a combination of both fan motor and engine age. The fan amp requirement goes up on older electric motors when the winding resistance goes up. The engines as well lose idle rollover torque due to ring and valve wear that lowers compression, the engine does not have as much 'uumph' at idle as it did new, that quality allowed the engine to power right through a power hit that temporarily lowers idle just for a fractional second.

Get the battery tested at a parts store for free, if it passes the loadtest at proper CCA (about 500 as a minimum) then it is NOT the battery. You can change battery all day long and not touch that issue at all, it has nothing to do with the battery.
In a previous post he posted his battery is only at 12.2 volts which represents a 60% charge capacity.
He complained of dimming headlights when the fan turns on.
I don't believe the battery will fix it, but probably should be replaced due to not being able to hold a full charge.



Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
If true you may well be right, I consider a 12.2 if the battery already charged as a bad one, good from 12.8-12.3.

Could be an alternator issue as well.

My 'nothing to do do with the battery' quip was based on one being sound and known good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
I believe he was getting 14.7 with the car running no accessories.
13.8 with the fan running. 12.2 with car turned off.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
When I did battery and alt checking for the big O there for a while, I came to the conclusion that a battery will show issues if it gets around 12.2 volts even if charging correctly, and why I commonly spit that number out as one that is not good on any car. It is one I saw lots of issues on, I consider them pretty much toast then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
I had worked out a setup that kicked one fan on and then 2-3 seconds later the other one but never had to go there as I did something different to fix the issue. There is a timer delay relay made to do things like that, you can find them on the web.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
It's likely a combination of both fan motor and engine age. The fan amp requirement goes up on older electric motors when the winding resistance goes up. The engines as well lose idle rollover torque due to ring and valve wear that lowers compression, the engine does not have as much 'uumph' at idle as it did new, that quality allowed the engine to power right through a power hit that temporarily lowers idle just for a fractional second.

Get the battery tested at a parts store for free, if it passes the loadtest at proper CCA (about 500 as a minimum) then it is NOT the battery. You can change battery all day long and not touch that issue at all, it has nothing to do with the battery.
In a previous post he posted his battery is only at 12.2 volts which represents a 60% charge capacity.
He complained of dimming headlights when the fan turns on.
I don't believe the battery will fix it, but probably should be replaced due to not being able to hold a full charge.



Sent from my LG-LS997 using FF Mobile
If true you may well be right, I consider a 12.2 if the battery already charged as a bad one, good from 12.8-12.3.

Could be an alternator issue as well.

My 'nothing to do do with the battery' quip was based on one being sound and known good.
I believe he was getting 14.7 with the car running no accessories.
13.8 with the fan running. 12.2 with car turned off.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using FF Mobile
When I did battery and alt checking for the big O there for a while, I came to the conclusion that a battery will show issues if it gets around 12.2 volts even if charging correctly, and why I commonly spit that number out as one that is not good on any car. It is one I saw lots of issues on, I consider them pretty much toast then.
I had worked out a setup that kicked one fan on and then 2-3 seconds later the other one but never had to go there as I did something different to fix the issue. There is a timer delay relay made to do things like that, you can find them on the web.
replaced my fan and it fixed everything as I suspected but last night the fan never kicked on when it should have so it started to overheat so i shut her down got a tow and it's at the shop, i was there this morning the fans were kicking on in the shop like that should of at temp 226 and bring it back down to 210. The question as to why i didnt turn on last night at idle when it should have I'm stumped. Ford doesnt make the fan relays anymore either
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
My resistor was cracked all the way around it but now I'm not taking the car back from the shop until the reason as to why the fan didnt kick on last night but is kicking on now is figured out. Its hooked up to a tech 2 scanner and iv watch the hest rise and drop in a consistent pattern with this new fan but I fear once the scanners no longer on it itll stop turning on as it should.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
I know it's going to sound insane but I'm wondering if its acting correctly because its warm in the shop and cold outside so theres miscommunication between the fan and engine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
When they do it once it's likely it happens again. Change the correct fan relay, a cheap way to get around that a lot. You don't need a Ford part to get 100% reliability there. Change the resistor too if cracked or melted. I bolt mine up with small screws, the OEM plug-in there is crap even new and can let the fan not come on when it has been failed once. The connection there is one of the worst in the entire car.

The fan relay socket cannot be melted or deformed from heat either, more asking for trouble.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Theres a new fan on it, that's the one that didnt kick on but it's been 2 days and it's working just fine checked relays they're fine checked plug in (mechanic did that they're fine) I'm probably gonna replace the high an low relay. That's the only relays for the car fan I think
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Connection hooks up fine, I'm wondering if my mechanic just didnt plug up something the right way because it's odd it didnt work one night but worked for 5 consecutive hours while he monitored the heat from the motor. The heat would get to 226 and fan would kick on and drop to 210 as it should be
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,311 Posts
Relays can do that all day long, 1 time out of 50, 1 time out of a hundred, it makes no difference. You can't 'check one' by simply looking at it either.
 
41 - 60 of 60 Posts
Top