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Discussion Starter #1
Having some issues with the dash going haywire. Speedo and tach drop to zero. CEL and other warning lights come on at the same time. Very intermittent sometimes 50 miles no issues other times constantly on/off. Tire pressure warning will flash at times, usually this is followed by the no start after shutdown for code P1260.

I followed this link thinking I had the no theft issue whooped. Also hoping it cleared the other issue. But no still having issues.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/general-technical-chat/373017-no-start-theft-light-blinking-easy-fix.html

Sometimes my code reader will clear it sometimes not, sometimes I can disconnect the battery with the same results. Checked all grounds I could find and as I said followed the above video.

Photo this is with car running about 40mph:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/5PzvUL.jpg

Thanks for any help. I appreciate it.
 

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You have an intermittent HS-CAN network fault rearing its ugly head.

Clarification on HS-CAN network: A Controller Area Network (CAN bus) is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other in applications without a host computer.

TL;DR you have a network fault that is causing your problems because the PCM and all the other modules (TCM, ABS, RCM, etc...) on the HS-CAN network cannot communicate with each other

I'd recommend taking this to get diagnosis done at a dealer , because without an IDS(Fords Scan tool software) and VCM(plugs into your computer and into your car via the DLC) and oscilloscopes it will be VERY difficult to trace down the issue.

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your reply, I called the local Ford dealer to make an appointment for an appointment.
Hopefully I can get it there Tuesday after the holiday.

I tried to explain the issue on the phone to the young lady as you had described in your post. She assured me she was ASE certified and had no clue about what I was saying. I remained calm and nice.

I also assume this was in part the reason someone had traded this car in the first place. It had a Carfax history report and I guess that made me feel all safe about it for my kid. The car had the "Electrical System Checked" one month prior to me purchasing it. Thought nothing of it, just routine maintenance.

Anyway thanks again.
 

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I'm glad you were able to get an appointment set up l. To be honest, ASE certified really means nothing nowadays. Cars are so complex nowadays and "ASE certified" covers only the basics of each system especially electrical . Honestly you really need to be manufacturer certified. The picture you posted and stating it happened while moving is a dead giveaway that you are having a network communications issue. It can be from as simple as loose fuse that supplies power to a module, or more complicated like a module is in the process of going bad or either one of the CAN + or - wires are shorting to voltage/ground , or shorting together intermittently .

Quick question: is there any aftermarket equipment (remote start, aftermarket radio/amp, etc.) installed in this vehicle?
.

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DTC P0606
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Could be as simple as a faulty alternator putting out insufficient voltage or a charging system wiring fault...
 

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Could be as simple as a faulty alternator putting out insufficient voltage or a charging system wiring fault...
While it could be that , I doubt it as he is not complaining of slow crank or anything similar besides a no crank-no start after he shuts it down after it messes up, it leans towards a network fault because of all the issues and you have to remember the PATS system has to communicate with the BCM to let it know if the key isprogrammed or not , if it is a programmed key, the BCM powers up the ignition relay and then communicates with the PCM to tell it has the correct key and gives a green light, so to speak, and the PCM then grounds the starter relay to start the ignition sequence and start the car, and if the modules can't communicate the car will not start

cars are very complex nowadays and the ignition switch is now merely an input into a module. it no longer has a direct connection to the starter

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^^^That sounds more like a description of the MkIII system, where cranking is computer controlled. MkI & MkII is still a simpler setup, PATS cutoff on many at least is for fuel/spark only.

MkIII introduced the computer controlled start sequence for focus models, where once to turn the key or press the start button the computer system takes over and cranks for start if all criteria are met.
 

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DTC P0606
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You shouldn't immediately gravitate to the most complicated possible problem cause right out of the gate.

More electrical faults have been cured on this forum by cleaning battery posts and replacing faulty alternators or burnt wiring than have been by dragging a car to a dealer.

Cars may be "complex" but all simple solution steps should be exhausted first.
 

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^^^That sounds more like a description of the MkIII system, where cranking is computer controlled. MkI & MkII is still a simpler setup, PATS cutoff on many at least is for fuel/spark only.

MkIII introduced the computer controlled start sequence for focus models, where once to turn the key or press the start button the computer system takes over and cranks for start if all criteria are met.


this is straight from WSM for an '08 focus,(pardon the cracks in my computer had a socket go haywire lol)




.

You shouldn't immediately gravitate to the most complicated possible problem cause right out of the gate.

More electrical faults have been cured on this forum by cleaning battery posts and replacing faulty alternators or burnt wiring than have been by dragging a car to a dealer.

Cars may be "complex" but all simple solution steps should be exhausted first.


Yes always check the simple things first before going to a dealer. That's why I said it could be simply a loose fuse in the fuse box causing an intermittent problem, if all the simple things check out it needs further diagnosis which is where the dealer comes in. I'm not trying to be negative in any way just trying to provide input.

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Knew some later models included the IC in the PATS system, and some with crank disable as well as the fuel cut.

OTIS on MkII I'd never seen mentioned, so with addition of the BCM comment (on MkIII maybe?) it sounded like a description of those.
 

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Yeah I got a little confused about mk2 and mk3 with the PCM so I had to go look up on WSM for the starting procedure, but in either scenario the PCM is controlling the starter

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I'll try to "describe" in a bit more detail. It is very intermittent as I said before.

I do industrial maintenance for a living, 27+ years. From that I've learned what is and is not in my limits, at least I hope. I'm not much on PLC's but I can find inputs/outputs. I can read a meter, amps ohms and voltage. But then again I'm more of a gearbox, pump, hydraulics/pneumatics, type mechanical guy. Unless it's Harleys then I'm good from '48 till 2011. Aftermarket EFI or piggy back units make it easier for me to diagnose with a lap top or hand held unit.

Anyway back to the "issue". Went back today and cleaned up all grounds I could find under the hood. Three on the left fender well under the hood, recleaned added new bolts. Ground to engine, cleaned and retightened. One on the left side above the valve cover looks like a relay, cleaned up the ground for it, had already been done but did again. And the ground off the main ground wire, the one shown in the video that I linked to before.

Dielectric grease on all of it.

The key switch is funky ,yes. Sometimes the key will not insert properly, both keys. I get P1260 both keys. P1000 I guess cause the battery has been disconnected 1000 times.

Weird sometime you get a P1260 code sometimes not. Slam the hood it clears, slam the door it clears. Change keys it clears.

For what it's worth battery and altenator check good.

Thanks for the help.

Nothing aftermarket That I can see, all looks OEM.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Update: So the local dealer called saying they found no issue. Maybe 30 minutes later she called back and said it was lit up like a Christmas tree. Their diagnosis was an instrument cluster short. So I asked if she could guarantee said diagnosis and she said yes.

I got the car for a good buy, even paying for the repair she quoted. Also I understand crap happens, meaning other things or parts fail. But I do not want to fall into a parts replacer debacle with the dealer.

Any advice? Or hopefully the issue is solved? Can you guarantee a diagnosis?
In my business that can cause big problems.

Thanks
 

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Do you park outside?

Seems pretty consistent with mouse/rodent damage to electrical wiring.

I have doubts that its just the cluster that has a short, but I'm pretty confident what you're describing is a short of some kind.
 

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LOL...............a starter that keeps on going unless owner knows to turn key ALL the way off. We change that after 75 years of what worked fine, and guess how many millions of lemmings will NOT be reading the owner manuals to pick up on it?

So, say a tech bolts starter on crooked and upon starting he hears the parts grinding/crunching to panic, lets off key but it keeps going, and until the bellhousing (trans) or starter drive/flex is destroyed. Explain that one to the owner.

Not to mention not being able to slightly bump starter for repair work any longer. Have I said STUPID yet? Owner ability to cease the starter engagement instantly is a SAFETY FEATURE. Wait till the first lawsuits hit over that one.........

Best plan to create new parts streams I've heard of yet. Ranks way up there like the purge valves that suck in fuel tanks.

Bravo Ford, bravo....................those McDonald's/Ford engineers are right on the job.
 

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LOL...............a starter that keeps on going unless owner knows to turn key ALL the way off. We change that after 75 years of what worked fine, and guess how many millions of lemmings will NOT be reading the owner manuals to pick up on it?

So, say a tech bolts starter on crooked and upon starting he hears the parts grinding/crunching to panic, lets off key but it keeps going, and until the bellhousing (trans) or starter drive/flex is destroyed. Explain that one to the owner.

Not to mention not being able to slightly bump starter for repair work any longer. Have I said STUPID yet? Owner ability to cease the starter engagement instantly is a SAFETY FEATURE. Wait till the first lawsuits hit over that one.........

Best plan to create new parts streams I've heard of yet. Ranks way up there like the purge valves that suck in fuel tanks.

Bravo Ford, bravo....................those McDonald's/Ford engineers are right on the job.
All manufacturers do this now. It's not just Ford, and to kill the starter all you have to do is switch the key out of the run position, ACC or OFF will cease the starter engagement. Cars have been doing this since the early '00s, just mainly on luxury cars at the start and is now cost effective to add on other cars now.

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LOL...............a starter that keeps on going unless owner knows to turn key ALL the way off. We change that after 75 years of what worked fine, and guess how many millions of lemmings will NOT be reading the owner manuals to pick up on it?

So, say a tech bolts starter on crooked and upon starting he hears the parts grinding/crunching to panic, lets off key but it keeps going, and until the bellhousing (trans) or starter drive/flex is destroyed. Explain that one to the owner.

Not to mention not being able to slightly bump starter for repair work any longer. Have I said STUPID yet? Owner ability to cease the starter engagement instantly is a SAFETY FEATURE. Wait till the first lawsuits hit over that one.........

Best plan to create new parts streams I've heard of yet. Ranks way up there like the purge valves that suck in fuel tanks.

Bravo Ford, bravo....................those McDonald's/Ford engineers are right on the job.
calm tf down.
 

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Like all the rest of the time failing to deal with 'lemming effect', it is very real, I dealt with it all day long for years. Saying 'they all do that now' changes that not one little bit to blue collar no college working men. As I said, the corporations now go the other way, the only way they can make big money in parts now. They HAVE to risk far more than wanted, just like the banks do now.

Motor on in blessed ignorance say I. Ask Toyota how well that has worked out with wi-fi throttle. Ask Jeep in another year once the 'trans in gear when it shows in park' lawsuits start really adding up. They changed the basic way all remote shifters have worked for again, 75 years and look at the potential issue now-the lawyers already have class action client collections going on on the cheap man's TV stations.

'...all you have to do is switch the key out of the run position...'

My point exactly, the OEMs now wanting to change that from what it was for 75 years, the public has it hard ingrained that the safety position is IN the run position. Good luck with that, NOBODY reads anymore, print is dead.

I'd think about the fact that Lee Iacocca also told his Pinto engineers to calm down (and shut up) as well, how did that end up?

LOL. You guys are killing me.................
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So the issue seems to be resolved. It's been over eighteen months, five thousand miles and no issues. Yea its a kids car and he drives about 3 miles to school and around abit. Outside of him running into a ditch last week he has taken great care of the car. The car is in great shape otherwise and most of the parts are here. Just lacking the upper condenser seal and a bracket or duct the ford guy could not find. A right and left side piece. In front of the condenser, busted up so not sure what they look like. The ford guy had the vin but for whatever reason failed to show those pieces.
 
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