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Discussion Starter #1
I've searched and can't find the threads I am looking for. I thought I had seen others with similar problems.

Back in August, i Had clutch and flywheel replaced by a Ford dealer. They installed aftermarket clutch with factory flywheel. Within a couple of weeks I was having issues trying to shift into gear when sitting still. If I held the pedal to the floor for a 10 count I could slide it in gear. Took it back to the shop in October and they replaced the clutch with OEM Ford.

Got it back and started having the vibration issues through the frame when under load I mentioned in another thread, as well as not being able to get it in gear sitting still and it was tough to shift when rolling. The vibration I was feeling turned out to be motor mounts, like the shop let the engine hang while the trans was out. I repaired those but took it back again because the engine was still vibrating, like broken flywheel. It also had issues when sitting still and trying to put it in gear the vehicle would move slightly. That was November 3rd. I've been driving their loaner for almost a month.

Got a call today "you're good to go". I start it up, go to put it in 1st and bump no way to slide it in and sure enough the car moves slightly even pumping the clutch. Let it sit long enough and it will go in if you massage it. Brought the service manager out and had him sit in the car. Sure enough he sees it too. I quizzed him hard about bleeding and shift linkage etc. His response, was telling me how they changed tranny fluid, they had a Ford factory service engineer look at it and yadda yadda, he has no idea what the problem is, he is short on techs this week. "Drive it the rest of the week and if it doesn't get better bring it back next Monday." I asked what they did to fix the vibration and the response was "we loosened everything and let it settle" even though they told me they would pull the tranny and look at the flywheel." Basically he wants his loaner back. Since I drive as part of my job and get reimbursed based on a Focus,, not a v6 Fusion, I am tired of driving his loaner. So I have my car back.

It feels like either the clutch was not bled properly and/or the shift linkage is out of adjustment. I am so tired of screwing with this shop I am tempted to take a look at things on my own again, but may take it back next Monday anyway. Will see how it drives tomorrow. The dealer is an hour away.

So, the purpose of my post, what would cause the vehicle to start to move when you release the clutch (foot to floor) and go to push in to gear?

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What would cause the vehicle to start to move when you release the clutch (foot to floor) and go to push in to gear
The clutch isn't totally disengaging. I would talk back to a dealer who told me to drive it like that, because the reason it's going into gear is because the synchronizer is doing all the work of meshing the gears while the clutch is slipping. It's going to wear out that first gear synchro and you're going to be into that same dealer for a transmission. Could be air in the clutch hydraulics. Apparently it's notoriously difficult to get all the air out of these. There are some threads about it here if you search.

Toby
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Normally I would puash back too. But at this point I dont think they have a clue what they are doing at the dealership. I am afraid they will screw something else up.

May try bleeding it myself. Need some warm air though. It's rather chilly out in an unheated garage. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just stopped at a transmission shop and told them my tale of woe. The first thing he mentioned was a possibility that the dealership tech installed the disc the wrong way? Can a clutch disc in a focus be installed backwards?

The tranny guy said that installing the disc backwards Will cause the same symptoms I have.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thought I would follow up on my post here.

First transmission shop I followed up with at my expense said they couldn't find anything wrong with the car. But I'm still having issues.

So I took it back to the dealer and they said they would put in another clutch but did not. Said they bled it again and it works fine. I get in it and it doesn't work fine. Took the service manager out for a drive and he put the clutch peda to the floor and rammed it in to first gear and said is working fine. I said take your foot off of clutch push your foot to the floor go to put it in first gear and look at the side of the vehicle you can see it move. Plus it doesn't slide into gear easy. So he tried that several times and said yeah I see the problem but I don't know what it is. So he called a local transmission shop and set me up to go to a second transmission shop that he knows the people and have them troubleshoot it at his expense. Second transmission shop owner tells me there's nothing wrong with the clutch it is the way I drive it. I was taught when you pull up to the stop light you put your foot on the brake you press the clutch pedal to floor and put the car in neutral and release the clutch pedal while you're waiting for the light to change. When light turns green push the clutch pedal to the floor put transmission in first gear and go. This guy tells me that is wrong. Said with new bearings in the clutches you're supposed to hold your foot to the floor constantly while waiting to put in gear? Says pushing the pedal up-and-down is adding additional wear to the clutch.

Can anybody out there give additional information on what this guy is telling me? I can't tell if this something for real are he is just trying to cover his buddy.

The trans shop guy claims people who drag race older cars with old-style clutches and have a lot of issues with the same thing when they buy new style clutches.

I've been driving manual transmissions for 40 years and never heard this.

Thanks
 

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I'll tell you one thing that may not make you happy, on mine with the original clutch (and a replaced master cyl. for leakage) it has never been an "instant" shift into first all the time - before or after the master cyl. replacement.

Can't just jam it in as fast as you put the pedal down dependably, takes easing it in & sometimes even a second try if it doesn't mesh perfectly at a stop.

Trans. is still spinning when the pedal is down, and momentum from that can move the car slightly if you shove it in fast & hard, something I avoid to save wear on the trans..

The backwards clutch disc mentioned shows itself by engaging more at full pedal depression, IF that was the case you could push it down short of the floor & engage first there - the car would start to move with the gear engaged & pedal pushed down further.

How far up from the floor is the engagement point now? That would tell you if it's bled completely. If it engages as soon as you lift a small amount, then further bleeding might help.

One that doesn't disengage fully would make the car roll before engaging, if engagement was possible at all.

I put it in neutral at a long light myself, but start putting it in gear before the green to be ready to go when it turns - gives time for a second try if needed the few times easing it in doesn't work right away. Push hard on the lever doesn't do it, clutch down and ease it forward until it'll move in as the spinning gears slow down.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As I recall there has always been a bit of a delay going into first, but it seems to be more pronounced now. There are times when it wont go in no matter how long I hold my foot down. Trans guy's fix for that is to double clutch it.

As for engagement, I will check today bit it has been around half way up pedal travel sometimes almost to the top.

I have issues daily where if I park on a hill when I go to start the car, the trans is stuck in gear even after start up. Have to rock it to come out of gear.

One habit I have picked up is sliding into 5th before trying to select any other gear, especially reverse.
 

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An intermediate gear helps to slow the spinning parts before selecting first or reverse, I'll use 3rd before reverse most often and maybe 2nd or 4th before first. Whatever is convenient that's in between. (for engagement when not moving)
 

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It feels like either the clutch was not bled properly and/or the shift linkage is out of adjustment.
One of these is exactly the problem. You're not crazy, and there are only a few variables to this equation. I've had 3 different clutches in my car (my own choice), and never needed to adjust anything with the shift linkage. My bet is it's not fully bled.
These hydraulic systems can take a while to bleed. It takes my wife and I about 45 minutes of pump/hold/bleed to get enough air out of it.
Get a buddy and re-bleed that slave cylinder. You should be able to clearly feel the disengagement when pushing in the clutch, at least with an aftermarket. I don't even remember what my stock clutch felt like.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I thought I would post a follow up.

After the dealer basically washing their hands of this and the problems getting worse, I took the car to a trans shop that has no affiliation with anybody. They pulled the trans abd found the flywheel loose. Not the Springs, but the center of the flywheel had broken loose from the rest of the disk. So the shop suggested I go with a solid flywheel and do away with the DMF. This is the third DMF I've had like in three years so I gave them the go ahead to do the conversion.

Now it shifts great. Stop at a stoplight or whatever you want, push the clutch pedal to the floor slide right into first. No waiting for the clutch to spin down, fighting to get in a gear or grinding or anything else. Like butter.

So, I would highly recommend the solid flywheel conversion for anybody who has dual mass flywheel issues.

One thing I have noticed is a growling noise when under load. Has anybody else who has done the conversion noticed this?
 
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