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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Alright today on my way home from my last service call today my trusty 2006 ZXW w/ 222K miles on it developed a severe driveability issue and threw the P2195 code relating to extreme lean condition.

To me it seems like a lack of fuel (possible fuel pump failure?) as even in neutral when i press the accelerator the engine will rev up and down from 1000 to 3000 to 1000, and at idle the engine will die in short order unless I press on the gas. I could be wrong though I have tried disconnecting the main O2 sensor to take that out of the mix and force open loop no change. When I used Forscann to read the fuel pressure the pressure was around 38-40psi. For a few weeks now I had been getting a P0171 lean condition DTC but didn't have any apparent driveability issues.

In the morning I will try swapping changing the fuel filter as it has been well over 100K miles since I changed it. I checked the various vacuum hoses and they all seemed intact. Tried searching the forum and none of what I found seemed to pertain to the exact issue I am having. I just hope it isn't the fuel pump as I had just filled up in the morning but the problem didn't happen until 85-90 miles and 5 hours later. Also no codes relating to a misfire or anything else, just the P0171 which got superseded by the P2195 code.

Any advise will be greatly appreciated!
 

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Alright today on my way home from my last service call today my trusty 2006 ZXW w/ 222K miles on it developed a severe driveability issue and threw the P2195 code relating to extreme lean condition.

To me it seems like a lack of fuel (possible fuel pump failure?) as even in neutral when i press the accelerator the engine will rev up and down from 1000 to 3000 to 1000, and at idle the engine will die in short order unless I press on the gas. I could be wrong though I have tried disconnecting the main O2 sensor to take that out of the mix and force open loop no change. When I used Forscann to read the fuel pressure the pressure was around 38-40psi. For a few weeks now I had been getting a P0171 lean condition DTC but didn't have any apparent driveability issues.

In the morning I will try swapping changing the fuel filter as it has been well over 100K miles since I changed it. I checked the various vacuum hoses and they all seemed intact. Tried searching the forum and none of what I found seemed to pertain to the exact issue I am having. I just hope it isn't the fuel filter as I had just filled up in the morning but the problem didn't happen until 85-90 miles and 5 hours later. Also no codes relating to a misfire or anything else, just the P0171 which got superseded by the P2195 code.

Any advise will be greatly appreciated!
38-40 psi relative fuel pressure is normal/correct. Just curious - when was the last time your Focus had new O2 sensors? Have you looked at the O2 sensor voltage output in scan tool live data? Lean condition can be lack of fuel or too much air (leak). What are your ST and LT FTs?

Paul
 

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Look for the most common fail there, the PCV hose leaking behind/below the intake manifold. They ALL do it at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
38-40 psi relative fuel pressure is normal/correct. Just curious - when was the last time your Focus had new O2 sensors? Have you looked at the O2 sensor voltage output in scan tool live data? Lean condition can be lack of fuel or too much air (leak). What are your ST and LT FTs?

Paul
Last time I changed the O2's was soon after I purchased the car, as a preventative measure thing as I didn't know when or if they were changed, and that was about 110K miles ago. The one that I had took out was still "good" so maybe I will try swapping it back in in the interim, and replace it with another Motorcraft one.

To amc's post: I do not believe that hose is the issue as today when I went out to the car (was unable to get to it either Friday or Saturday) the car ran fine like nothing ever happened, so it would not seem that hose would be at fault as if it failed would it not be still failed and causing the issue even after waiting 48+ hours? Took the car on a road test today no issues, including to highway speeds.

I suspect it is something heat related as the car was sitting and we did have snow yesterday night (though all melted by late this morning), and on the day the issue happened was warmer but far from extreme, but a lot of stop and go mixed city and highway driving. Perhaps it is the front O2 sensor maybe developed a fault that make it seem like the engine was running drastically lean, maybe it was some other issue and the O2 was just reporting the actual facts. Will have to see how the car behaves over the next couple days, but may be prudent to replace the front O2 in any case and see how things go. I've been doing my own car maintenance for 20 years now and never recall seeing a similar thing happening.
 

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Will have to see how the car behaves over the next couple days, but may be prudent to replace the front O2 in any case and see how things go. I've been doing my own car maintenance for 20 years now and never recall seeing a similar thing happening.
Do you have a scan tool that can read live data? Can you look at the O2 voltage output and the ST/LT FTs? Much better that the parts cannon.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do you have a scan tool that can read live data? Can you look at the O2 voltage output and the ST/LT FTs? Much better that the parts cannon.

Paul
Yes, I've been monitoring the car with Torque even before this happened as got the P0171 light and the long term fuel trim was more in the 8-10 range, but broke out Forscann as Torque won't measure the fuel pressure so used FS for that. When operating normally the front O2 has its normal swings up and down, on Thursday when things went crazy the O2 pegged at 1V and the fuel trim went to +66.

Again when things went crazy it wouldn't even maintain a fixed engine speed when in neutral as when applying enough throttle to keep it around 3000RPM it would bounce between 1000 and 3000. Yesterday when I was finally able to get to it showed no signs of issue and was running like it had the past 116K miles I've driven the car. Something is off somewhere, it is just a matter of time before it reoccurs, and I want to get it figured out sooner than later.
 

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when things went crazy the O2 pegged at 1V and the fuel trim went to +66.
Interesting case. Usually when the O2 reading is high (rich) the fuel trim goes negative as the system tries to respond by pulling out fuel. A question would be: is the O2 responding to an issue or is it the issue? The original code you posted P2195 is a lean code.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Interesting case. Usually when the O2 reading is high (rich) the fuel trim goes negative as the system tries to respond by pulling out fuel. A question would be: is the O2 responding to an issue or is it the issue? The original code you posted P2195 is a lean code.

Paul
Well odd thing happened as both the P0171 and P2195 codes have ceased but the P0420 cat converter below efficiency code has appeared. Though since last Thursday have not experienced any additional drivability issues either.

As for the readings maybe the front O2 read low voltage, all I remember for sure is the fuel trim was at +66 when I never generally see it go over +/-10 but fluctuating up and down normally. Maybe I was conflating what I remembered for the fuel trim with the O2 reading. Whichever the case got a front O2 on order as probably near time to change it anyways (has more miles on it than the one I took out when I first got the car).

Last year I got the code for the front cat converter failing and applied an anti-fouler to that O2 but now looks like I will have to do the rear O2 as well.

Interesting case, indeed.
 

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Well odd thing happened as both the P0171 and P2195 codes have ceased but the P0420 cat converter below efficiency code has appeared. Though since last Thursday have not experienced any additional drivability issues either.

As for the readings maybe the front O2 read low voltage, all I remember for sure is the fuel trim was at +66 when I never generally see it go over +/-10 but fluctuating up and down normally. Maybe I was conflating what I remembered for the fuel trim with the O2 reading. Whichever the case got a front O2 on order as probably near time to change it anyways (has more miles on it than the one I took out when I first got the car).

Last year I got the code for the front cat converter failing and applied an anti-fouler to that O2 but now looks like I will have to do the rear O2 as well.

Interesting case, indeed.
Yes very interesting.
My 2005 ZX4 5-speed currently has 190K. Ive only had to replace O2S13 (sensor 3) due to an ongoing P2274 that started around 153K. It would come on and then after a few days go off. Once it was off scan tool would show no codes but it always came back after a few weeks. I replaced it last summer after CEL started coming on more frequently for that code and scan tool data would show intermittent no output from that sensor. A bit of a PITA to get out. Replaced with a Motorcraft sensor and no issues since although I dont drive much as its is my 'backup' car and my rusty/crusty 2002 SE wagon Zetec 5-speed (130K) is my work horse.

If you can please post up your experience changing out that O2.

Paul
 

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Just so the OP knows.............that conclusion on the PCV hose being bad means it has to be bad all the time is wildly incorrect. Have seen them bubblegum up the rubber to suck a soft hole in to leak then they reseal to run fine for maybe a month. BTDT. Until the next time. It has happened to countless others here onsite that swore the same thing.

I chased one such leak for over a year after it happened several times and after each the car went back to running fine for a long time. Never found it until it got bad enough to finally quit sealing back up. The hose rubber was like soft glue or bubblegum. Also, hose tears can suck apart to leak badly then the flap next time does not open up, looking at chaosian chance there, in no way is there a rule saying the leak has to be constant.

Car certainly has the age to do it, most do it before then.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just so the OP knows.............that conclusion on the PCV hose being bad means it has to be bad all the time is wildly incorrect. Have seen them bubblegum up the rubber to suck a soft hole in to leak then they reseal to run fine for maybe a month. BTDT. Until the next time. It has happened to countless others here onsite that swore the same thing.

I chased one such leak for over a year after it happened several times and after each the car went back to running fine for a long time. Never found it until it got bad enough to finally quit sealing back up. The hose rubber was like soft glue or bubblegum. Also, hose tears can suck apart to leak badly then the flap next time does not open up, looking at chaosian chance there, in no way is there a rule saying the leak has to be constant.

Car certainly has the age to do it, most do it before then.
I haven't made any conclusions yet. In the time since the incident it has not reoccurred.

The only thing that has changed is no longer have the lean codes P0171/P2195 but have now gotten the P0420 code. Odd timing with those that would be lean one day then not lean anymore but bad catalysts, maybe something happened to the cat converters. Though the behavior during the incident was different than what I have experienced with clogged catalytic's before (where would have a lack of power over a certain engine speed). Oh the mystery!

I haven't done anything yet, besides monitoring the situation. In 2 weeks when I have some time off from work I will try to look into things a bit while doing other work on the car (new shocks, struts, and maybe rear springs while I'm in there, and perhaps some other things if I can find them like color matching front bumper and hood if I can find one in good enough shape, or go black if I can find that instead).
 

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'...I do not believe that hose is the issue...'

That's a conclusion where I come from. Anyway, do as you will, all I'm saying is that the PCV hose is stuck up in a hot location and it would be odd if it DIDN'T go bad with higher miles, although a few might make it. I'm going by how many show to be bad onsite here, we get a lot of them.

Luck............
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
That's a conclusion where I come from. Anyway, do as you will, all I'm saying is that the PCV hose is stuck up in a hot location and it would be odd if it DIDN'T go bad with higher miles, although a few might make it. I'm going by how many show to be bad onsite here, we get a lot of them.
I am curious on something in regards to the PCV hose. When the PCV hose does fail, is it getting stuck closed preventing proper flow or is it opening up creating a vacuum leak?

I can see where a vacuum leak would cause issues (though normally would be most seen at low engine speeds, at "driving speeds" vacuum leaks should be less noticeable), but beyond increased pressures in the crankcase, which could lead to other issues, why/how would a blocked/collapsed PCV hose cause the symptoms that I had that day?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, now almost a month and a half and over 2000 miles after the initial incident I have only had 1 other incident where it started to act up with the revving up and down issue, but it did not last long but had a sustained +40 on the short term fuel trim during that trip but did go back to "normal" fluctuations since. The day it happened (almost a month after the first incident) fuel trims were normal fluctuations while driving but when at idle would ramp up to +40 relatively quickly.

The P0171 and P0420 codes still exist so all I know for sure is that the exhaust manifold assembly will be needed to be replaced sometime in the next year, and something is causing a slight lean issue. I have not replaced any parts but I did do the carb cleaner spray test around the intake manifold area to see if there were any changes, but found no indications of a vacuum leak that way. I also put a couple bottles of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner through and no changes observed.

I am curious as the cat converters are on their way out, could they possibly be causing some issue that would lead to the P0171 lean code if they were starting to get a bit clogged? Or perhaps amc49 if there is an issue with the PCV hose would that cause a lean issue if clogged?

The only other information that I can provide that may be relevant is the day before the first event happened I did get a full tank of gas, at a gas station (Minuteman or Midwest) I don't normally go to because their price is generally a bit higher than other nearby stations. That day they were competitively priced, but the station is a little sketchy so normally stay away from it. Though that would not explain the 2nd incident on May 23rd and 24th, though I did get gas 2 days before that at a Shell station.

I got torque running most time while I am in the car just to see where things are at. And those incidents above are the only times when things got way out of whack.
 

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Well, now almost a month and a half and over 2000 miles after the initial incident I have only had 1 other incident where it started to act up with the revving up and down issue, but it did not last long but had a sustained +40 on the short term fuel trim during that trip but did go back to "normal" fluctuations since. The day it happened (almost a month after the first incident) fuel trims were normal fluctuations while driving but when at idle would ramp up to +40 relatively quickly.

The P0171 and P0420 codes still exist so all I know for sure is that the exhaust manifold assembly will be needed to be replaced sometime in the next year, and something is causing a slight lean issue. I have not replaced any parts but I did do the carb cleaner spray test around the intake manifold area to see if there were any changes, but found no indications of a vacuum leak that way. I also put a couple bottles of Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner through and no changes observed.

I am curious as the cat converters are on their way out, could they possibly be causing some issue that would lead to the P0171 lean code if they were starting to get a bit clogged? Or perhaps amc49 if there is an issue with the PCV hose would that cause a lean issue if clogged?
I do not believe your catcons are the source of your lean issue. A true lean condition - verified by positive ST/LT FTs - is typically due to low fuel pressure, clogged/non firing injector(s), or unmetered air entering the intake stream. The latter issue can be from dozens of places and can be frustrating to track down. In addition the 'typical' intake manifold/vacuum hoses dont discount leaks in the EVAP and EGR systems as being potential sources as well. A smoke test may be a helpful diagnostic tool here.

Paul
 
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