2005 Focus auto trans issues

501 Views 33 Replies 5 Participants Last post by b0bth0r, 21 h ago

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · 10 d ago

Having an issue where at first glance I thought the transmission was slipping between the 2-3 shift and I had no record of when the trans was last serviced (I've owned the car for 4 years and half of that spent in Melbourne lockdown) so I changed the fluid/filter. It had a slightly burnt smell to it so I put in some lucas trans fix as well better safe than sorry but no change from the new fluid or the lucas. I also realized it was more like it was pausing in neutral for a couple seconds before shifting to 3rd, and not actually slipping. Everything else seems fine enough, can drive hard or gentle in second or third once it's in gear and no issues, just the shift. Also at some point the instrument cluster stopped showing what gear the transmission is in, not sure if this is pure coincidence that something else went wrong or somehow related?

All my research on these forums and google points to the solenoids, with the small chance that they can be dirty/sticking and NOT throw codes which is applicable to me as I've got no codes in either a cheap obd2 scanner or in forscan. I tried the cheap option of pulling the solenoids out and cleaning them with contact cleaner and compressed air, couldn't seem to make them open with a 9v battery like I've seen so not sure how well they've been cleaned overall. All of their resistance values seem to be within what they should be. This time the transmission fluid did not have any burnt smell to it at all, would have been maybe 200km (124 miles) on the fluid change if that's long enough to tell.

My next option is to buy some chinese solenoids off ebay as that's my only real option for 'new' in Australia that I can find. But before I go throwing money at it... does anyone with more experience think it could be something else? Some way to test or check what's going on to narrow it down to something other than guessing

See less See more

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

pbfoot

· #2 · 10 d ago

The 2 to 3 slip is usually due to wear in the transmission case.

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · #3 · 10 d ago

pbfoot said:
The 2 to 3 slip is usually due to wear in the transmission case.

Even if it's just a delayed shift and not actually slipping? If so what wears out that needs replaced?

pbfoot

· #4 · 10 d ago

b0bth0r said:
Even if it's just a delayed shift and not actually slipping? If so what wears out that needs replaced?

The driver side end cover on this trans is well known for wear issues with high mileage that allow for fluid leaks that can cause all sorts of problems.

pbfoot

· #5 · 10 d ago

You cant build up line pressure with the end cover leak. Have you tried shifting manually? If it does the same thing, then that confirms the wear.

pbfoot

· #6 · 10 d ago

Get the Ford 4F27E reference manual, PTB 013.

pbfoot

· #7 · 10 d ago

Wear was accelerated due to no fluid changes. The burnt fluid smell was your first clue. On my 07, it started flaring at 72,000 miles. I changed the fluid and filter and it never came back. Car was totaled by my daughter at 132,000. Kicked myself for not changing it at 60k.

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · #8 · 10 d ago

pbfoot said:
You cant build up line pressure with the end cover leak. Have you tried shifting manually? If it does the same thing, then that confirms the wear.

Yeah, before my cluster stopped showing what gear it was in I tried manually. The cluster showed 2 even in the neutral hang until it changed gears and showed 3rd.
It's got about 158k miles on it and I've only done the last 8k so I've really got no clue about the service history. I'm sure it was done at some point, because the temperature sensor wasn't attached to the filter and every pan bolt could be loosened by hand

I had a look at the end cover in the manual and watched a disassembly video, is it just a matter of pulling the cover off and swapping for one that isn't worn out? I feel like anything further is questioning my abilities but ultimately I don't need something to last another 100k or even 50k, I'd be happy with a fully functioning transmission for another 10-20k miles until I can hopefully afford a newer and nicer and probably manual focus... anything further is the next owners problem.

pbfoot

· #9 · 10 d ago

b0bth0r said:
Yeah, before my cluster stopped showing what gear it was in I tried manually. The cluster showed 2 even in the neutral hang until it changed gears and showed 3rd.
It's got about 158k miles on it and I've only done the last 8k so I've really got no clue about the service history. I'm sure it was done at some point, because the temperature sensor wasn't attached to the filter and every pan bolt could be loosened by hand
I had a look at the end cover in the manual and watched a disassembly video, is it just a matter of pulling the cover off and swapping for one that isn't worn out? I feel like anything further is questioning my abilities but ultimately I don't need something to last another 100k or even 50k, I'd be happy with a fully functioning transmission for another 10-20k miles until I can hopefully afford a newer and nicer and probably manual focus... anything further is the next owners problem.

There are a few threads on it but my skills on automatics are limited to the solenoids and filter. These transmissions are plentiful used, many with warranties. I would wait for AMC49 to chime in. He is the last remaining resident with any knowledge of these transmissions. His advice will he best. Personally, since you are only going to drive it another 10 to 20k, I would drive it and save my money for the next car. Have a great evening from San Leon on Houston bay.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

amc49

· #10 · 10 d ago

The end cover wears but so does the parts running on it. One is a bushing supporting the heavy reverse cylinder which also contains the direct clutch which is needed in 3 and 4. The slip (it IS slip even if only as a slight rpm ;flare') is caused by either or both 2 and 3 to add up to the slip. The 2 cause can be band and it can be adjusted up slightly by use of a longer bolt and the 3 issue is the direct clutch most likely. The main end cover wears and then you lose reverse and direct one or both pressures to get closer to slippage. Reverse you can tell by putting trans in R and paying close attention to how hard the bump is when it goers into R and the time delay too. When both the band and direct clutch wear you begin to lose the shift timing as the two move away from each other in engagement, the slip then begins to show when one or both do not cover up the proper amount of time allotted for the shift. Either gear 2 (band) releases too quick or the gear 3 due to worn direct engages too slow, you then slip slightly.

Adjusting the band slightly tighter may get you some time, the bands adjust by the use of special bolts, several with each getting longer. Generally though if band you get a bit of 3-4 slip first, that not showing may be pointing more at direct clutch, they are very small and burn pretty easy when the end cover gets too loose.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

amc49

· #11 · 10 d ago

https://tps.kz/4F27E-repair-manual-4F27E-MAZDA-6.pdf

Service manual there......................

Reactions: 3

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · #12 · 9 d ago

amc49 said:
The end cover wears but so does the parts running on it. One is a bushing supporting the heavy reverse cylinder which also contains the direct clutch which is needed in 3 and 4. The slip (it IS slip even if only as a slight rpm ;flare') is caused by either or both 2 and 3 to add up to the slip. The 2 cause can be band and it can be adjusted up slightly by use of a longer bolt and the 3 issue is the direct clutch most likely. The main end cover wears and then you lose reverse and direct one or both pressures to get closer to slippage. Reverse you can tell by putting trans in R and paying close attention to how hard the bump is when it goers into R and the time delay too. When both the band and direct clutch wear you begin to lose the shift timing as the two move away from each other in engagement, the slip then begins to show when one or both do not cover up the proper amount of time allotted for the shift. Either gear 2 (band) releases too quick or the gear 3 due to worn direct engages too slow, you then slip slightly.

Adjusting the band slightly tighter may get you some time, the bands adjust by the use of special bolts, several with each getting longer. Generally though if band you get a bit of 3-4 slip first, that not showing may be pointing more at direct clutch, they are very small and burn pretty easy when the end cover gets too loose.

Thanks much for the info. There isn't really a hard bump or delay going into reverse. From what I'm looking at it doesn't seem like much more work to pull out the clutch cylinder along with the end cover. I know what to look for from a junkyard end cover, but any immediate signs to tell me if a clutch cylinder is alright without taking it apart while at the wreckers? It would be just my luck the reason said focus was scrapped is because of the trans.
3 main questions, because all my skills are from faking it till I've made it and transmissions are a new realm;
1. Most importantly, it's hard to tell but can you access the end cover with the wheel and inner fender removed? Space and time are limited so dropping the trans isn't an option to do myself at the moment.
2. Assuming I actually source a reasonable condition clutch cylinder and end cover, would I be running into issues with parts worn in to that trans mating to my trans with its own wear in? Including that if my own band isn't suspect, I'd reuse it. I'm happy with a trans that works, that's all. Don't need perfect precise engineering if it isn't necessary.
3. For the time being, with the fluid change and lucas trans fix that I put in, could the wear/symptoms be expected to stay how it is for the time being, or am I expecting it to get worse each day/week?

See less See more

Reactions: 1

pbfoot

· #13 · 9 d ago

b0bth0r said:
Thanks much for the info. There isn't really a hard bump or delay going into reverse. From what I'm looking at it doesn't seem like much more work to pull out the clutch cylinder along with the end cover. I know what to look for from a junkyard end cover, but any immediate signs to tell me if a clutch cylinder is alright without taking it apart while at the wreckers? It would be just my luck the reason said focus was scrapped is because of the trans.
3 main questions, because all my skills are from faking it till I've made it and transmissions are a new realm;
1. Most importantly, it's hard to tell but can you access the end cover with the wheel and inner fender removed? Space and time are limited so dropping the trans isn't an option to do myself at the moment.
2. Assuming I actually source a reasonable condition clutch cylinder and end cover, would I be running into issues with parts worn in to that trans mating to my trans with its own wear in? Including that if my own band isn't suspect, I'd reuse it. I'm happy with a trans that works, that's all. Don't need perfect precise engineering if it isn't necessary.
3. For the time being, with the fluid change and lucas trans fix that I put in, could the wear/symptoms be expected to stay how it is for the time being, or am I expecting it to get worse each day/week?

Best way to judge the transmission condition in a junkyard is to pull the pan and look for one with a low accumulation of metallic fragments on the pan magnet. Best way to deal with this imho is to keep driving by minimizing the flare. When my 07 was doing it , I would subconsciously let off the gas anticipating the slip making it worse. After I realized what I was doing, I started driving it harder for the 1 - 2 shift. Kept the slip to a minimum. Anytime you try to refresh an old transmission with used parts it is a coin toss.

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · #14 · 9 d ago

pbfoot said:
Best way to judge the transmission condition in a junkyard is to pull the pan and look for one with a low accumulation of metallic fragments on the pan magnet. Best way to deal with this imho is to keep driving by minimizing the flare. When my 07 was doing it , I would subconsciously let off the gas anticipating the slip making it worse. After I realized what I was doing, I started driving it harder for the 1 - 2 shift. Kept the slip to a minimum. Anytime you try to refresh an old transmission with used parts it is a coin toss.

There wasn't much on my pan magnet, just what looked like normal expected amount of metal gunk. Either there isn't that much wear in mine or I can't rely on that for a guide haha.
I normally drive harder, but once I feel it slip out of second I let off until I feel it shift into 3rd or it'll rev to the moon like it's in neutral and I'd be afraid of it slamming into gear

Reactions: 1

pbfoot

· #15 · 9 d ago

b0bth0r said:
There wasn't much on my pan magnet, just what looked like normal expected amount of metal gunk. Either there isn't that much wear in mine or I can't rely on that for a guide haha.
I normally drive harder, but once I feel it slip out of second I let off until I feel it shift into 3rd or it'll rev to the moon like it's in neutral and I'd be afraid of it slamming into gear

Yeah. Your transmission is done. Do what you can. Keep us updated. Good luck.

amc49

· #16 · 8 d ago

Drive it light like said. Question 1 yes people do it simply dropping trans end way down. 2. You have to take the clutch drum apart to find damage unless burned up, you might see the heat marking. You also have to have an eye for clearances to look at the cylinder snap rings to see how much clearance the clutches have, a fine art. Take a feeler gauge set and the clearances written down from manual. Question 3, 50/50 chance. The light bump going in reverse tells you there is wear at the cover.

Also, look for cracks in the band, it can let second drop loose faster to flare up.

Reactions: 1

b0bth0r

Discussion Starter · #17 · 8 d ago

amc49 said:
Drive it light like said. Question 1 yes people do it simply dropping trans end way down. 2. You have to take the clutch drum apart to find damage unless burned up, you might see the heat marking. You also have to have an eye for clearances to look at the cylinder snap rings to see how much clearance the clutches have, a fine art. Take a feeler gauge set and the clearances written down from manual. Question 3, 50/50 chance. The light bump going in reverse tells you there is wear at the cover.

Also, look for cracks in the band, it can let second drop loose faster to flare up.

Alright, thanks so much to both of you for all the information so far, I'll have to see what I can muster up over my borrowed time to get it sorted out. Especially since I think that 50/50 is going against my favor, driving today the 1-2 shift I noticed started to have a very slight delay.
But that was a trip to a ford stealership to get cruise activated in the pcm since it's too old for forscan to modify pcm and I won't trust a chinese cable with elmconfig, so now I've finally got cruise control at the very least so it's not all bad news around hurray (except that it cost nearly as much for them to toggle it on, as a gem and steering wheel from wreckers and an obdlink ex cable combined...)

aymanmarcosld

· #18 · 8 d ago

I can help you fix the transmission hassle

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pbfoot

· #19 · 8 d ago

aymanmarcosld said:
I can help you fix the transmission hassle

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No

amc49

· #20 · 8 d ago

No a second time. The same guy says to use 'a/c intake valve' for air conditioning, totally lost.

The 1-2 delay could be more sign the band needs adjusting...............

1 - 20 of 34 Posts