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Discussion Starter #1
Ok... I've got a 2003 Ford Focus 2.0 liter SOHC "P" series. (The model with the faulty valve seats)

Car had been overheated and sat for almost a year. Pulled the head off. Water/Coolant filled in the cylinders. This is my first engine job and I'm learning. Need some help plzzzzz!

I don't have a lift and only limited money.

I'm trying to salvage the block and pistons, however, the crankshaft will not turn. With the battery, only clicks. Can't get it to turn over manually with socket, but have not attempted a breaker bar yet.

There definitely was rust in the cylinders above the pistons. I cleaned it out pretty good and noticed some scoring on the cylinder wall. I was going to hone the cylinders, but can't seem to get the crank to turn to bring the pistons down to BDC.

Tomorrow when daylight returns I'm going to drain the oil/water (lol) and take the oil pan off and see what it looks like.

Is it likely that I have a damaged connecting rod or broken crankshaft? Or maybe the engine is just frozen with water and/or rust in the underside of the piston? I read about using WD-40. Going to try that too.

Worst case scenario: How hard would it be to rebuild the pistons? Would I have to pull the block out completely? Also, how can I tell if I hone the cylinders too much and need oversize rings, etc.?

Also, it seems more reasonable to buy a re-manufactured head with the valve seat problem already fixed rather than wasting $50 to pressure check my old head, $50 to resurface it, then pay $125 to put the valves in for me and probably have the seats fall out in a few months. Plus I would have to buy the valve components. The head looks reusable to me, but what do I know. I would guess it was just a blown head gasket.

I would prefer to do everything myself if possible. Don't have all the fancy tools though. I'm very frugal.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!

SCHOOL ME! [cool]
 

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Rust

Vtrade, plan on boring the cylinders. The rust you see on the cylinder walls has caused pitting. That pitting will not clean up with a (glaze break) hone job. Sorry[:(]
 

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^^^^ Scored plus pitted isn't good.

Full rebuild with bored cylinders/new head/pistons etc. is a major expense.

That's the point when many decide to do a swap instead, as the engine is coming out anyways.

Marvel mystery oil is one possibility to help free up the rusted in place pistons, some swear by ATF as well. WD40 prob. won't help too much for that. Free it up if you can to confirm the damage, you'll feel better having checked at least.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, sailor, you talk about the expense for a full rebuild, yet, if I swap a USED sohc "p" series the engine will just blow on me again. THEN, I have just wasted the expenses and am back to square 1.

The "pitting" (which I believe it is) isn't horribly bad. But, it is definitely noticable. What tool should I rent/use to get the measurements to know If I need oversive rings?



I'm about to put the car on jack stands and pull the oil pan and have a looksies. Can I bore the cylinders myself with a honing device or something else with the block still in the car? Or is this a job that has to be taken to a machine shop with the block out? How can I get the block out without a lift if that is my only option? I'm pretty strong, but how much does the block weigh? Hehe. I'd really prefer NOT to have to pull the block out.
 

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Some go for the zetec swap instead of doing a full rebuild or SPI swap.

Can't see it from here, but any rust beyond a "stain", along with scoring mentioned, would need a total tear down & bore cylinders for oversize pistons for a proper repair. You'd first have to check what sizes are avail., and look at/measure the bore by a machinist for the best guess at what size would clean it up.

Looking at the cylinders to see how the crosshatching looks & if it's worn enough to have a ridge at the top of the cyl. is the first estimate for wear. If ridged, a dial bore gauge & micrometer can give an idea how bad - such tools aren't rented AFAIK.

At a guess, old plus scoring plus rust would need a second over piston size (.50 mm) to get a clean bore after bore & hone.

For a less than perfect job, if the rust/scoring is minor enough to virtually disappear with a ball hone job, it could conceivably be done in place. IIRC the SPI allows removal of the pistons/rods when installed so this COULD be attempted. Many have replaced a broken piston in the frame with success after a valve seat drop so there is some hope.

Overall, I hope that explains why there isn't a simple answer. "fingernail catch" level of of scoring/pitting/cylinder ridge is one rough guide to wear/damage that won't clean up with light honing.
 

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You shouldn't be looking for what parts you need.

This is a situation where the engine should be pulled and sent to the local machinist for a rebuild.
That is, if you plan on the car lasting longer than a few days to a few months.
You don't have the tools to do it correctly. Sorry.



Can you just loosen it up and hope it runs?
Probably. But don't expect it to last long or run properly.



What that rust and pitting does is make spots where the rings don't grab and oil seeps past. So now the car wants to burn oil. Also the sharp edges will cause the rings to flutter, this tears them up and puts stress on them. If bad enough it can crack them. Then you're using oil and loosing compression. Feels like you're towing a boat power wise.

A smooth, concentric bore is what you want. If you don't have that, let a certified machinist (AERA) provide you with one.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well I got the car on some jack stands and got the oil pan off. It's definitely rusted as well. I was able to get the crank off and sprayed some penetrating oil all over everything.

I want to pay to have as little done as possible, and do as much as I can by myself. I want to be able to rebuild engines. So, does boring require expensive machinery and must be done in the machine shop?

This is what's included in a gasket set I can purchase:

-Piston Rings
-Pistons
-Main Bearings
-Rod Bearings

* Pistons & Rings are available in Standard sizes and Oversizes: .20, .40. Engine Bearings are available in Standard sizes and Oversizes: .10, .20, .30.

So, can I bore the cylinders myself to a specific measurement? Or should I just pull the block and have them do it to a specific measurement. What size should I go?

It seems everything is accessible with the oil pan off and leaving the block in. Also, if I take the passenger wheel off I should have room to slide the crankshaft out.

*I'm going to start taking things out of the block next, lol. Not really sure what everything is but it appears it will need to be cleaned up anyways. I read to keep the parts of the pistons 1 through 4 separated so I don't get them mixed up.

I really don't want to pay somebody if I can do something myself. I'm a very fast learner and I love learning this stuff so any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO REBUILD ENGINES!

Also, I was a little confused as to how to get the valves out of the head. I rented a compression tool but couldn't quite figure it out. If I remove the bolt on top will the spring come flying out and put my eye out? I'm a little scared of it hehehehehe.
 

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Don't rebuild that engine, it has no future. Read the threads about the Zetec swap and start hunting around for a good salvage engine. That's your most economical option. It will be by far the cheapest and the least time-consuming.

Toby
 

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http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2003/09/rebuilding-the-ford-2-0l/

Do you have any measuring tools?
You'll need them if you want to REBUILD ENGINES.

It isn't simply replacing parts. Rebuilding an engine isn't for the I can turn a wrench with the help of internets monkey. If you don't even know what the parts are, it's not for you.
 

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Not trying to be mean but as said, the engine is pretty much junk and thinking you can bore it yourself shows the skill level there. Boring takes a while to pick up and absolute extreme attention to detail, a good boring man is VERY hard to find now, most in the shops now are nothing but bloody butchers. You need a job in a machine shop to pick the skills up and you won't be able to consider yourself any good at it until you have passed maybe 25 blocks under your belt.

If motor sat for year with water in it then the cylinder walls will be rusted deep enough so that no available oversize piston will work except maybe .060". It will probably take that much bored (.030" per side) to clean up that much damage. Even then may not. The car does not care how much money you have...........and with nothing to work with you are still at square one, I'd go different engine there if I were you, the SOHC is full of potential grief, the DOHC can't be destroyed as long as you keep oil in it.
 

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I see a used Boring Bar machine from Kwik Way for sale in E-bay for $5,000.

Of course it would need check over/adj. and maybe some repair, hard to guess. Then you'd need to learn to sharpen a bit, if any good ones are included....

Practice on a junk block to get the idea so you don't break it or ruin the first one you attempt. Only Four holes to bore & hone to exact spec. so the engine will work....

Remember the micrometers, bore gauge, hone you need as well, not cheap tools.

Crank can't be removed with engine installed & trans bolted up, don't even try.

Oversize pistons are the CHEAPEST part to do the machining for, getting into different sized bearings requires serious machine tools.

You haven't disassembled enough to even GET to the valves if you're talking about a "bolt" for removal.

Do some reading on how it all goes together as suggested, you can't even consider doing a repair/rebuild without more info. than you can get here.


http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=...2F360960905891%3Flpid%3D82&adtype=pla&cad=rja
 

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Vtrades,

I've been doing my own wrenching on my vehicles for 30 years. Like many DIYers I started out simple, working on parents cars and friends cars and co-workers cars, when I was a teenager. My rule was I bought the tools, and they buy all the parts and if it didn't work, then no complaints. I got people to pay for me making my mistakes while I built up my tooling. Luckily for them, I didn't make that many costly mistakes, but I sure as hell made some. But even in those cases, buying extra parts (when I diagnosed the wrong one) was cheaper for them than taking it to a shop, so we both benefited. And lots of times people would pull out a checkbook and give me a little something which paid for the tools I needed to buy to do the job. Great fun and I made a lot of friends that way.

After a while of course I stopped working on other people's vehicles, I was working on my own. And at the beginning I would take the car into a local shop with a real nice mech who liked BSing as much as he liked working, for the hard jobs. But as the years passed the hard jobs got fewer and fewer, as I bought more and more expensive tools and did more of the work myself.

Eventually my mech friend retired and I started taking my cars to other mechs for the few "hard jobs" I thought I couldn't do. But, finally the day came that this stopped, it was the day I had A/C repaired, and the mech replaced the compressor but didn't flush the system (even though I told him to do it) and the new compressor (or course) seized a week later. I had avoided A/C work because of the expense of the tooling and but that tore it, I dropped $400 on a guage set, vacuum pump, flush kit and new compressor and a couple gallons of mineral spirits and did it myself - the A/C was still cooling when I sold the car years later.

And this brings me to Lesson #1 for the DIYer or wannabe DIYer.

NEVER work on a vehicle that isn't worth it!

Meaning this, ANY job that's going to require you to spend more than a couple hundred dollars on parts or tooling MUST be cost-benefit analyzed BEFORE you waste any time with it.

What is a 2003 Ford Focus with a blown engine worth? Let's say $400 in scrap steel value. What can you buy an identical 2003 Ford Focus that is running out of the used car adverts for? Let's say $3000. That means, if it's going to cost you more than $2600 in parts and tooling to get it running - then your losing money DUMP THE CAR!

I don't care if this car is the first car you owned when you were 17 years old and your high school girlfriend blew you in the back seat of it and you don't want to give it up for the memories. ITS JUST AN OLD CAR!!! The world is full of 'em.

There are ALWAYS people out there who will buy old heaps that cost more money to fix than it would cost to buy a running heap of the same model. They get emotionally involved or they are just stupid. Who cares why they do it - as a "frugal" DIYer, all you want is their money. Sell 'em your heap and take the cash and buy a better heap.

And this brings me to Lesson #2 for the DIYer or wannabe DIYer.

There are some jobs that REALLY DO require a shop.

Anything that has to remove material from an engine block or head - from a cylinder bore to a valve lap to a spark plug hole repair - is something you really DON'T want to do. It's easier to rebuild an automatic transmission in your garage and get it done right than bore an engine. Engines don't come from the factory these days with lots of extra material. They aren't expecting them to be bored out. They figure that if the cylinder is bad enough to need more than honing then people can find a good engine core at a wrecker cheaper.

There is a lot you can learn to do yourself in your garage. And there is a lot of education to be gained by taking apart a blown engine piece by piece, looking at every piece, reading the manual and learning what each piece does.

But know your limits. For what your going to spend even trying a Ztec swap, your probably better off selling it and buying a replacement that is running but "needs some work"
 

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FWIW, I bought a running 2003 ZX5 two years ago for $550. I replaced a bunch of stuff myself, mostly with parts off my old ZX3. I estimate that with tires I've spent about $2000 total on the car...and it's done 230 000 kms for that, beyond the 237 000 that was already on it. I fully expect it to flip 500 000kms this winter. In other words, some cars are worth some time and parts, and some just aren't--that's why the old Focus is a parts car and the "new" one is a daily driver.

Kudos for being a DIY guy...but if you don't have tools and can't figure out a compression tester, I would guess that engine rebuilding is beyond you right now. Try the Zetec engine swap--that's not the easiest job but it'll give you a great sense of what goes where on the Focus. It'll be cheaper and faster, and you won't need expensive tools (though I'd at least rent an engine crane).
 

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Actually with the skills shown in posting even the zetec swap may be a bit much there...............good words tmittelstaedt, they don't often want to hear it but then they NEVER do even if best for them. Somebody's gotta be the bad guy and bust the bubble there. Not to denigrate the will to learn how to 'rebuild motors' but better to take classes for it or learn out of books for free like I did, not wanting to read is DEATH for all you rolling your eyes right about now. You can't do electronic cars without reading, not the deeper stuff. I watched backyard mechanics do it all day long when I was at the store and totally abysmal results and they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it, making things much worse. It would be the world's greatest comedy if it wasn't so sad.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok. Thanks everyone. Sorry been scrapping analog tv's the last two days ;-P

I will look around for a DOHC. I read that I should be able to get one for $200-300.

I never went to college or anything for automotive mechanics, but I am becoming a VERY good one. I got the head off myself, and also the crankcase/oil pan, intake and exhaust manifolds, serpentine belt, timing cover and timing belt. Not too bad for an "internet monkey who turns a wrench". BANANA! BANANA!

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phillipians 4:13

The whole point is for me to learn.

And, by the way, Iminhell, it only took me a day or two to learn the engine components. I now have gotten the piston connecting rod caps off of all the pistons, and loosened all of the crank bolts. However, the crank is still frozen.

I have pb blaster soaking on the top of the pistons and lubed the underside of the cylinder as well, along with the most everything else.

I was working the crank bolt (not a good idea, I know), but actually got a little movement by putting a battery in and cranking it by the flywheel. I'm letting it soak overnight and will try to bang the pistons out with a dowel and hammer. If that isn't successful, I will concoct 50/50 = ATF/FUEL and torch it! Marvel Mystery Oil is too pricey to waste on a junk engine, in my opinion.

I know there definitely is some pitting in cylinder 2 and 4. Exactly how much? I'm not sure. I was thinking about just trying to hone it down and replacing all of the pistons, bearings, rods, etc. But, I think I will go for the DOHC swap.

ANY TIPS FOR DOING THE DOHC SWAP?
I was told to make sure I keep the harness and ECU. Are there any modifications I will need to make? Is it an exact fit for the motor mounts, serpentine belt, harness and plugs? Do I need to modify the ECU?

There is a junkyard that has an SOHC and a DOHC, but, there is no guarantee with the engine :-l

I figure if it has a lot of body damage, the engine is probably good. Or, if there is no body damage the engine may be blown. Just some common logic that God popped in my head. But there is no telling how longs it's been just sitting there. Maybe I will wait to get to Houston and get a guarantee on the engine. Although, I might be able to talk him down to a good price and take a risk.

Thanks!

P.S. I can always get more money. I just don't want to spend more than $300-$500 on this engine job to get the car running. I am very frugal.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I know how to use a compression tester. It was the spring compressor that I wasn't sure of. I didn't know you take the rocker arm off first to get to the spring. I didn't want the bloody spring putting out my eye!

Tmittel, I'm kinda like you. I started working on cars because the auto shop charges so much money and has a tendency to rip people off. I've owned close to 6 cars in the last year and haven't taken one of them to a shop, except to get a diagnosis and fix it myself lol! I buy and resell. This is my hobby and part time job! I love it! Some mornings I can't wait for the sun to come up so I can work on a car.

The 2003 Ford Focus will potentially be worth close to $3K once I get it running. Notice I did not say "if". It's a project car for me to learn engine work. I'd been scared of engines before. I have a Dodge Ram 1500 5.2l with 230k. Runs like a beast. I paid $800 for it. The focus is my gf's car and the engine blew up on her after her and her dad spent a fortune to have an allegedly rebuilt engine put in, only to have it overheat and blow up a week later. She's driving an '89 cadillac right now and I want to upgrade her car for her. Even if I spent $1000, which I will probably spend closer to $500 (some of which will be for tools that I will retain), it is worth it.

We need another 4 cylinder for economic purposes. Not another v8 (cadillac). Worst case, we can scrap the focus, but I would rather give it life! Rise from the grave, Ford Focus, in the name of Jesus Christ!
 

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If it's a project car and you have access to money, then do whatever you want. But you started this thread and framed the problem like you need a running car and have limited options. So have fun and don't play us, dude.

Toby

P.S. There are way cooler projects than a Focus, and your time is worth a lot more than fixing one to flip it.
 

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As long as you treat it as a learning experience, you can't loose working to take apart the broken one to see what you've got there.

Texas cars don't have the rust problems we have up north, so fixing one isn't the waste it would be on a rotted shell.

Remember the crank won't come out with the engine installed, it's attached to the tranny & you'd need a lift bar to support the engine in place with the trans removed. Too far away to loan you one (grin).

The engine/trans swap section has detailed threads & stickies on swap info., most important hint off hand is to get the KEYS to go with the PCM/ECU as it's a pain to get a swap complete then have to tow it to Ford or find a locksmith to get you coded keys to start it up when the job is complete. One member just went through that problem & posted it here, not the first time it's happened.

Fear of working on one can be overcome when you think of it as broken already. Yes there'll be times you break something from lack of knowledge, but it happens less often than you worry about & is part of the price for learning & doing it yourself.

Savings over time makes up for those occasions, and some things like rusted fasteners break for everyone - all you can learn there is how to reduce the frequency of those PITA's.

As TM mentioned, the usual calculation is whether tools & parts cost the same or less than paying for the work. Anytime you come out even, with tools on hand for another job, is generally considered a "win" by those of us who've gone the route of learning to do it ourselves whenever possible.

BTW, you can find more hints for the SPI in the performance section for them. It's become more of a section for major repair (valve drop/overheat) than a performance mod. section over time.

Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Woooo Weeee that zetec swap will take some WORK! Especially if I go to a pick-n-pull. I'm considering maybe getting a cheap SOHC and using the block if mine is not reusable. I was told that a bore job could cost $500 or $600 bucks! Then, I can get a reman head with the valve seat fixed for $225. That's cheaper than redoing my old one most likely.

Hmmm, I'm still weighing my options. I wanted to get this done before I move to Houston, but it appears that is not going to happen. I'll just have to load it up on my dollie and take it with me. I hate being rushed to do mechanics anyhow. That's when I make mistakes or do a sloppy job.

Then again, I can probably find a nice DOHC in Houston and just make it my project for a little while. I'll learn alot.

I started as an amateur with a $20 ratchet set. I've never regretted it.

:-D

I'll keep checking the other forums.
 
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