[Bear Pants]

Hey all! I been trying to narrow down this issue but it's so damn cold outside. I am headed to NH on the 26th and wanted to get rid of this sway issue.


Now from what I understand some 4 doors have rear sway bars and some down. It's been about a 50/50 from all the ones I've seen. Mine does not have one (I think it's a stupid concept to not have them installed).

So I can take a ramp going right just fine and car holds out fine. However on a left bend the car starts to sway left and right really badly and almost oscillate and I could technically keep the sway going if I don't "steer right to get out of it".

I got an alignment today and it was a bit out of wack. They did max out one adjustment I have the paper but it really didn't much. I was just hoping it would track a little better. But I think the problem is also related to the car wanting to work its way over left going down the road (50mph+).

So driving down the parkway going 60 I just barely jerk the wheel to the left and it will start swaying left and right real bad. Doing this right and it will act just fine. Can you guys help me narrow this down?

Do I pull a swaybar from a junkyard?

Is my front left strut shot?

Is one of my rear springs cracked?

My front sway bar bushing and end link bushings gone? (It had some movement but no loose play)

Thank you

[popcorn]

 

[sailor]

Moved this to Brakes, Suspension & Chassis for you.

I'd wonder about the bushing condition on the right rear actually - I assume you mean that it is swerving a bit as well as swaying.

If it doesn't feel planted in a turn, it's often a worn out bushing that lets the wheel change angles & steer itself as a load is placed on the suspension back there. Bad enough & it'll feel 'loose" even going straight.

 

[amc49]

As usual the alignment guys drop the ball. No way should they even be attempting to align a car that could have any of those things mentioned wrong with it. Unless OP of course TOLD them to do it and what most do. You directed them to align a car that cannot be aligned and so many of you do this.......................................it is absolutely WORTHLESS to align a car that is not dimensionally stable or accurate as far as having any looseness in the suspension, front or rear.

It used to be considered incompetent of an alignment shop to align one under those conditions as well, but with todays' ways of doing things (ripping the unlearned off left and right) all that is water under the bridge and long gone.

Having to max out an adjustment is an indicator of parts loose or damaged on the car.

Cars are made by the millions with no rear sway bars, they run fine and forever. Need to look elsewhere for your issues.

Loose parts everywhere I'd bet. The alignment shop is supposed to look for those and tell you car cannot be aligned rather than align it, as you see that did not happen.

Have someone follow behind you and look at the tracking of the car while going dead straight ahead, I'll bet they can easily see the rear wheel track is way off being centered on the front wheel track and the car is actually going down the road sideways. Here in Fort Worth I see cars like that all the time and when like that they often are extremely sensitive to wheel being moved one way, they are inherently unstable and at a possible severe braking event can easily go out of control to cause a serious accident. Any little uneven pavement will make them sway back and forth as they are not traveling directly straight forward and most all stability is lost doing that.

You can emulate same thing to your viewing by picking say a big parking lot or park just after a rain and let most of the water dry up, then drive as straight as possible through a remainder puddle and then get out and look at how far off the tracking is from front to rear of the car. The two track sets should be dead centered on each other. If not you got issues.

 

[Bear Pants]

Moved this to Brakes, Suspension & Chassis for you.

I'd wonder about the bushing condition on the right rear actually - I assume you mean that it is swerving a bit as well as swaying.

If it doesn't feel planted in a turn, it's often a worn out bushing that lets the wheel change angles & steer itself as a load is placed on the suspension back there. Bad enough & it'll feel 'loose" even going straight.

Thank you and and what your describing is eexactly what is happening. I guess I'll look at those bushings again. Not sure exactly which would cause the issue.

As usual the alignment guys drop the ball. No way should they even be attempting to align a car that could have any of those things mentioned wrong with it. Unless OP of course TOLD them to do it and what most do. You directed them to align a car that cannot be aligned and so many of you do this.......................................it is absolutely WORTHLESS to align a car that is not dimensionally stable or accurate as far as having any looseness in the suspension, front or rear.

It used to be considered incompetent of an alignment shop to align one under those conditions as well, but with todays' ways of doing things (ripping the unlearned off left and right) all that is water under the bridge and long gone.

Having to max out an adjustment is an indicator of parts loose or damaged on the car.

Cars are made by the millions with no rear sway bars, they run fine and forever. Need to look elsewhere for your issues.

Loose parts everywhere I'd bet. The alignment shop is supposed to look for those and tell you car cannot be aligned rather than align it, as you see that did not happen.

Have someone follow behind you and look at the tracking of the car while going dead straight ahead, I'll bet they can easily see the rear wheel track is way off being centered on the front wheel track and the car is actually going down the road sideways. Here in Fort Worth I see cars like that all the time and when like that they often are extremely sensitive to wheel being moved one way, they are inherently unstable and at a possible severe braking event can easily go out of control to cause a serious accident. Any little uneven pavement will make them sway back and forth as they are not traveling directly straight forward and most all stability is lost doing that.

You can emulate same thing to your viewing by picking say a big parking lot or park just after a rain and let most of the water dry up, then drive as straight as possible through a remainder puddle and then get out and look at how far off the tracking is from front to rear of the car. The two track sets should be dead centered on each other. If not you got issues.

I never liked paying for an alignment I feel like it's just a scheme these days rather than them trying to help. I understand what you're saying and from my experience I can tell you right now that the car is not tracking straight based off everything that is happening. What do I need to do to fix this is all I need to know.

I'm not stupid and know pretty much the ins and out of this stuff. There just seems to be too many variances with these cars that It makes it difficult to pin point. I'm figuring it's obviously a common occurrence on these vehicles and was looking to find out what are the most probably causes for it so I can take it from there.

 

[Bear Pants]

I will replace the front sway bar end links and will look at the front struts.

 

[sailor]

Rear lower arm seemed the most common spot, then I saw a few that had bushes in the front lower arm go so I can't call it between them.

That gives four places on each side that can let the toe change if they're "sacked" & not holding position. (bushing on each end of two arms)

Grabbing the front & back of the tire & trying to wiggle would show VERY bad ones to know where to look closer.

 

[Bear Pants]

As usual the alignment guys drop the ball. No way should they even be attempting to align a car that could have any of those things mentioned wrong with it. Unless OP of course TOLD them to do it and what most do. You directed them to align a car that cannot be aligned and so many of you do this.......................................it is absolutely WORTHLESS to align a car that is not dimensionally stable or accurate as far as having any looseness in the suspension, front or rear.

It used to be considered incompetent of an alignment shop to align one under those conditions as well, but with todays' ways of doing things (ripping the unlearned off left and right) all that is water under the bridge and long gone.

Having to max out an adjustment is an indicator of parts loose or damaged on the car.

Cars are made by the millions with no rear sway bars, they run fine and forever. Need to look elsewhere for your issues.

Loose parts everywhere I'd bet. The alignment shop is supposed to look for those and tell you car cannot be aligned rather than align it, as you see that did not happen.

Have someone follow behind you and look at the tracking of the car while going dead straight ahead, I'll bet they can easily see the rear wheel track is way off being centered on the front wheel track and the car is actually going down the road sideways. Here in Fort Worth I see cars like that all the time and when like that they often are extremely sensitive to wheel being moved one way, they are inherently unstable and at a possible severe braking event can easily go out of control to cause a serious accident. Any little uneven pavement will make them sway back and forth as they are not traveling directly straight forward and most all stability is lost doing that.

You can emulate same thing to your viewing by picking say a big parking lot or park just after a rain and let most of the water dry up, then drive as straight as possible through a remainder puddle and then get out and look at how far off the tracking is from front to rear of the car. The two track sets should be dead centered on each other. If not you got issues.

Rear lower arm seemed the most common spot, then I saw a few that had bushes in the front lower arm go so I can't call it between them.

That gives four places on each side that can let the toe change if they're "sacked" & not holding position. (bushing on each end of two arms)

Grabbing the front & back of the tire & trying to wiggle would show VERY bad ones to know where to look closer.

Thanks for the info I'll check all the control arms tomorrow. Put a jack under them and see which ones have most play.

 

[sailor]

Front end links are primarily a noise problem, rattle going over bumps when loose.

You can drive without it hooked up at all & not know the difference in average driving, actually corners a bit better with less understeer - just rolls a little more on a hard turn.

 

[Bear Pants]

Front end links are primarily a noise problem, rattle going over bumps when loose.

You can drive without it hooked up at all & not know the difference in average driving, actually corners a bit better with less understeer - just rolls a little more on a hard turn.

Okay I'll look more into control arm bushings then. My cherokee with front sway bars disco'd is an animal

 

[Bear Pants]

Can anyone link me to a cheap kit of poly bushings for the control arms? Assuming I don't have an actual bad control arm.

 

[Bear Pants]

Here is the alignment sheet from yesterday

http://i.imgur.com/cS8IbW2.jpg

 

[sailor]

Aye, front's perfect - and rear is a disaster.

10-15 in at the rear would be nice to see, left at 30 in & right 25 out is running crooked for sure!

Figure that proves something's wrong out back as guessed. Loose or bent.

 

[Bear Pants]

I took some photos and video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGAOsSAopFs

Aye, front's perfect - and rear is a disaster.

10-15 in at the rear would be nice to see, left at 30 in & right 25 out is running crooked for sure!

Figure that proves something's wrong out back as guessed. Loose or bent.

Not positive of what component in the rear right is making all the ruckus.

 

[sailor]

Some fast wiggles, looked (and sounded) like the rt. wheel bearings are gone.

Had to chuckle, I've got one of the same old Sears Jacks - new in the 70's.

 

[Bear Pants]

Some fast wiggles, looked (and sounded) like the rt. wheel bearings are gone.

Had to chuckle, I've got one of the same old Sears Jacks - new in the 70's.

This jack has been in the family for a while haha. And yeah I can see that. Probably cake to do I hate drum brakes but what can I do.

But I still feel like this isn't causing the wobbling and weirdness when steeering left.

 

[sailor]

That's a lot of wobble if I can see it in your video.

Look it over better when doing that, harder to find other looseness when you're shaking something loose that attaches there.

 

[Bear Pants]

May just follow what this guy did

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231180

Didn't know this would be such a pricey route. I miss my civic.

 

[sailor]

Norm did good work there, it's a big job to do the whole rear end.

Won't need the upgrade if you only have a problem or two.

 

[Bear Pants]

Norm did good work there, it's a big job to do the whole rear end.

Won't need the upgrade if you only have a problem or two.

I have a week and a half before I go up to NH and am pretty limited on cash. I think I may pull my rear dog bone "trailing arms" and do the bushings in those too boot. I'll upload some pics of my shotty bushing and post them soon.

 

[Bear Pants]

I'm pretty ticked at sts. My feels way way worse since getting an alignment. What the [][][][] is the deal!



http://imgur.com/DIrspGZ,CumrNxF,Vsunl1t

photos


I'm going to rent a car. It's so much worse now since they touched it. Any off even road I hit now throws the car into a death roll.

Miss my other cars.