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2.3 to 2.5 Engine Swap

53K views 104 replies 13 participants last post by  derekpittx 
#1 · (Edited)
First off, to clear up any confusion, this write-up should not be used for any SVT, Zetec, or SPI. It is only meant to be a guide to help those who already have duratecs in there car. Either the 2.0 or 2.3.

So my 2.3 has developed a terrible knock, its been burning oil for awhile and I've just been driving it till it dies. Well now it can barely accelerate over 3k rpms so I've started looking seriously into new engines. Specifically the fusion 2.5 engine. Here is what I have gathered so far and need to make sure I have everything so this can go as smooth as possible. I will also be replacing the clutch at this point to since it has 134k on the stock clutch. I'm trying to do this as easily and cheaply as possible. I found someone on the fusion forums who makes an adapter plate for the 2.5 head->2.3 intake manifold, So I won't need to switch out the head. I know this isn't ideal as the 2.3 head is better but this will make it easier and cheaper. The engines i'm looking at have ~40k on them so I don't think it would be necessary to change the the water pump or oil pump.

EDIT INSERT: i'll try to keep track of prices as I do this for any future people to go off of. Obviously its going to be different depending on what you need, have, and want but I'm going for a pretty budget build for myself. Keeping the 2.5 head for simplicity of not removing my 2.3 head.

All accessories will remain as 2.3. Ie. Powersteering, alternator, starter.

Useful Threads:

Tools needed:
  • Torque wrench 1/2" and 3/8" drive
  • 1/2", 3/8", 1/4" drivers
  • 4,6,8,10,13,15,18,19,22mm sockets, both deepwell and non deep well.
  • impact gun (used both 1/4" and 3/8" adapters <--- not necessary but damn does it make things easy
  • 8mm allen wrench
  • tubing, funnel
  • Timing pin, Timing bar
  • crank pos. sensor tool (comes with new one)
  • clutch alignment tool (came with excedy oe kit)
  • Hammer
  • Torch
  • breaker bar 1/2"
  • Jack, Jackstands (at least 2)
  • 6 point <---i'll get the size later
  • reverse 6 point <--- I'll get the size later
  • syringe and tubing
  • friends
  • pliers: all types
  • magnet for when you drop the bolts and pieces
  • flashlight

Parts I know I need/have and prices:
  • 2.5 engine......................................................490$, 6k miles
  • Exedy Flywheel...............................................230$, new
  • Exedy OEM clutch w/ slave...............................150$ new
  • VCT delete kit.................................................33$ new
  • Timing Cover from 2.3......................................56$ used
  • 2.5->2.3 intake manifold adapter plate................95$, new
  • Serp Belt (got oem 2.3 length we'll see..)............30$ new
  • Wideband for Tune...........................................0$, already have
  • Grommet for wideband cord...............................1$
  • D25 Oil Pan.....................................................0$, will use off current D25
  • 2.3 camshaft...................................................70$, new
  • 2.5 camshaft gear............................................20$
  • D25 timing chain..............................................0$, will use off current D25
  • D25 Valve cover...............................................0$, will use off current D25
  • D25 Oil Pickup tube..........................................0$, will use off current D25
  • 2.3 crank pulley...............................................83$, new
  • 2.3 water block inlet.........................................0$ will use off current 2.3
  • 2.3 inlet block gasket........................................6$
  • 2.3 crank pos sensor.........................................24$
  • 2.3 Oil pressure sensor......................................0$, will use off current 2.3
  • 2.3 Cylinder Temp Sensor..................................0$, used old 2.3
  • D25 oil dipstick................................................0$, will use off current D25
  • waterpump gasket............................................4$
  • EGR Gasket......................................................8$, new
  • Throttle Body Gasket.........................................10$

Fluids
  • Oil 0w-20, 3 gallons..........................................36$
  • Coolant 1 gallons + 1 gallon water mix.................15$
  • Break fluid........................................................6$
  • Powersteering fluid............................................6$



Additional Parts I don't NEED but am getting/have anyways:
  • BSD delete.......................................................30$, new
  • 180* thermostat...............................................0$, will use off current 2.3 (<300 miles on that one)

TOTAL COST ~1400 All labor done by me. Not to bad considering that this includes a new clutch and last time i had a shop do the clutch in my zetec focus it cost ~800$. I already had all of the tools required for this to.

Parts to sell
  • intake manifold..................................................
  • throttle body......................................................
  • EGR sensor........................................................
  • Timing cover......................................................
  • EGR delete........................................................SOLD 15$
  • 2.3 engine.........................................................

So for those of you that have done this swap, Is there anything in the the "parts I may need" that is an absolute must for this swap or anything that I am just completely missing? I know there are sensors that should be swapped but I'm not sure which ones. Any tips that you guys have for engine removal would be great to. For example, would it be easier too leave the trans in the car or take it out as 1 whole unit.

I MAY have access to a lift but that is not guaranteed. I will try and document a writeup as I do this since I couldn't find a good one online yet even tho many have promised!!
--EDIT: didn't use the lift all was done on jackstands, trans stayed in the car though if I were to do it again I'd remove the trans with the engine.--

For the clutch I was looking at the Excedy OEM replacement. This should work fine correct? correct. Since i ordered one [grin]
--EDIT: clutch is working great so far, remember to reverse bleed the clutch, it takes <3minutes and is 10000x easier than pumping the pedal--

Is there any special tools I'll need besides the timing bar and pin?
--EDIT: the crank position sensor came with a tool that is needed, I didn't use any other special tools.--
 
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#67 ·
Yes! I didn't take pictures of that part, essentially the same process as any other 2.3 duratec. The oil pan is different though and doesn't have the markings on where to place the new sealant like the 2.3 pan. Just gotta follow a path and hope for the best. I haven't resealed it yet. Going to do that once it is in the car. Just want to do one last check in the car before sealing it all up. Paranoia at its best [scream]

Got the slave cylinder in today. Piece of cake. 3 bolts and clip. put a small amount of wheel bearing grease on the inside of the slave bore just in case. Don't think it should effect anything but probably won't hurt. I'm hoping tomorrow morning I can get the engine back in place. Its ready. [giddy] Forgot I picked up a work shift Saturday morning so I won't be able to do it then.
 
#69 ·
Well good news! The engine is in! Took a little wiggling but it finally fell into place. no accessories hooked up so can't test it yet. Just got all the holes covered in masking tape to keep dirt and dust out. Though when lower the car with the engine still in it landed on the crank pulley and I am a little worried it will cause a stress fracture that will end up junking the motor. I certainly hope not, since i"m not going to take it back out to check. I am also a little worried that I didn't clean the diamond coated washer that sits between the crank pulley and drive gear. Might pull it off and do a cleaning. Thoughts? I know I'll need a new bolt. I already have a spare thanks to my forgetfulness.
 
#70 ·
Not the much room w/ the trans in,,,,,maybe could of not installed the crank pulley till the motor was in the chassis, oh well its in,,,,,,,,great!
 
#73 ·
Ya, and now with another motor out of the car all the parts to do it. I'll just hold onto it till i feel safe. Thanks for the vote of confidence! [thumb]. I'm excited now. Hard parts over. Now just need to reattach all the misc. stuff [hihi]. Good thing I bagged and labeled all the bolts!!
 
#76 ·
Alright well. Everything is in. Filled with fluids. I go to start the car, put the key in, turn it on and get full power (battery at 12.24 volts) go to crank and nothing. Tried to see if it was the clutch pedal switch, Manually held it down and no crank with there either. Didn't have much time left before I needed to call it quits so i packed everything up and left. Now here is my plan for tomorrow for trouble shooting

  • Check starter voltage
  • Check fuses (any recommendations on where to start? obviously the starter but anything else?

Would the oil pressure sensor cause a no crank? I didn't swap that one over from my old engine and I am using the fusion one (same pigtail)

Would the crank pos. sensor out of place cause this issue?

I can turn the engine over by hand easily so I don't think there is any damage internally.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
 
#78 ·
I doubt its the oil pressure sensor or the crank sensor,,,,thinking it needs to at least crank over. Ground cables/wires? IK you only messed w/ the engine wiring, Does the pats work? You try the other key?
 
#86 ·
Got the coolant hose from the local pick n' pull for 2$. Sounded fair to me! Looked for other cool stuff in the junkyard for a bit since I was there but no luck. O well, I also got an egr coolant hose.

Well after a couple trips around the block, all looks well. Clutch works fantastic. I found bleeding the new slave very easy with reverse bleeding. Took all of about 3 minutes compared to when I did the Master cylinder that took hours to bleed.

Second, Car is LOUD with the header on, I think i'll get a Catalytic converter put in after the flex and move the res farther back. That should quite it down a nice bit.

Still need to get Tom a datalog. I threw a CEL on the way home Both for Bank 1 Sensor 2. Not surprising since there isn't one plugged in. Need to get wideband routed through the firewall as well. Need this ASAP for tune.

Oil Pressure light is on, I think this is due to me reusing the fusion one. I'm doing an oil change in 1000 miles and will replace it then since it requires draining the oil anyways. Engine sounds great and dipstick reads good so I'm not worried about oil pressure. I'm going to leave some cardboard under it tonight to check for leaks, but initially it all looks good.
 
#87 ·
Don't have to drain oil to replace a pressure sensor, that's nothing to guess at so take care of it ASAP.

Rule of thumb is to crank an engine until you get pressure/light goes out before first firing.
 
#89 ·
Huh, didn't know that I'll get it changed by tomorrow

I'd agree with you if it was a new engine, being used however and likely sitting for less than year, I imagine it was fine. I filled it with oil by pouring the first large gallon over the camshafts and everything with the valve cover off. Thing fired up with no issue, didn't even struggle finding idle right out of the gate.

Great you got it running, Vince,,,,,,,,,[cheers][thumb][:)][grinking]
Feels good [hihi]
 
#90 ·
Well did a spot test last night to see if anything was leaking by putting cardboard underneath. No leaks as of yet will probably keep that up for a week or so just to make sure. Everything is going smoothly at this point. Need to get a firewire cable to hook up the wideband as well as drill through the firewall to let the cable through.

EDIT: updated first post with tools required and final costs for those interested.
 
#91 ·
Well did a spot test last night to see if anything was leaking by putting cardboard underneath. No leaks as of yet will probably keep that up for a week or so just to make sure. Everything is going smoothly at this point. Need to get a firewire cable to hook up the wideband as well as drill through the firewall to let the cable through.
Of course using a grommet,,,,IK you know,,,,,just mentioning,,,,,,,
 
#97 ·
Yes I've been having this issue before the engine swap though so i cant attribute those symptoms to the swap itself. I'm thinking it has to do to with the intake manifold since it started happening after I pulled the intake manifold to replace the thermostat, replace pvc tube, and delete the tumble flaps. It only bucks and surges when I get on it from that speed though. If i do a slow tip in, it doesn't have any symptoms. Watching my AFR it jumps back and forth. I still need to finish the tuning with tom on it. Before I did the engine swap I was tuning and it was slowly going away. I can notice it a tiny bit in third and 5 around the same RPM. Could be a vac leak as well.
 
#99 ·
I have had my EGR disabled via tune for a while now. Thats what makes me think there is a vac leak somewhere. Only enough to cause a problem under certain loads/rpms. Personally I think it has to do with deleting the tumble flaps, but not sure if you did that or not. I removed the metal bar that goes through the end of the runners so air could be being pulled across runners (probably not good). Thinking about going to the junkyard and grabbing the bar from another focus to see if that helps fix the problem. I need to shoot off another log to Tom to see what he says about it. He wasn't sure before because i didn't have a wideband installed until after the engine swap.
 
#100 ·
Bar removed isn't a problem unless the end opening isn't capped.

Yamaha used a cross tube to aid in balance across the intakes on 4 cyl. inline engines, special tool was needed to block it off when balancing the four carbs. Opened back up it aided in keeping them close to each other for even firing at lower RPM.
 
#103 ·
Shucks, 2k in fourth ain't cruisin'.

Off throttle that RPM is a "I want to go but you won't push the pedal" cry from the engine. Wants more pedal or a drop to 5th to idle along once you get into that range, at least mine feels that way.
 
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