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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So here is where I am with this diagnosis everything seems to point to due but I don't see how. So vehicle drove to store fine then was parked customer when inside came out and said it started then once she placed it in reverse the vehicle shuttered and shut off and at that point would no longer crank. I went to look at it that evening verified her concern no crank verified that there was no power to the starter relay from ignition. After replacing the ignition lock module assembly cranking was restored but not able to start. Removed ignition coils found oil in the spark plug wells removed plugs checked compression 200 psi (some oil did enter the cylinders) plugs were worn replaced plugs and with plug installed in each coil verified a strong spark( could jump about a 1/2-1 inch gap) then removed valve cover set cylinder one to top dead cylinder and looked at cams both valve were closed and timing marks look right from what I can tell both are parallel on rear end of cams where cam sensor is at. Replaced valve cover gaskets and reassembled . Removed fuel rail
With injectors installed and connector connected with each injector positioned into a collection container and fuel pressure gauge installed between rail and supply line. Cranked engine over fuel pressure was 55psi and each injector seems to pulse with a nice atomized mist when commanded on, reinstalled fuel rail to engine and tried to crank doesn't start, tried introducing a fuel source into the air cleaner after the MAF and car started and could rev the engine up to about 2-3 k rpm and hold it until external fuel source was removed then would resume crank no start and after prime and allowing it to run and stall out fuel pressure gauge stays at 55 psi and doesn't ever drop or bleed off. I am honestly frustrated as I have been in this field for awhile ( don't have certifications but been in several shops and the field) but I am finding myself scratching my head and feel I am over looking something. I do hope you can help me resolve this issue and learn from this of nothing else. As far as codes battery was dead when I went to look at it I would assume she cranked it dead but it wouldn't crank so battery presumably failed as it was 5 years old but computer did show a cylinder 2 and 4 misfire in history but was reset after removing battery and there are still no codes set In the computer as of now other than for no monitors being ran. When cranking check engine light does go out which I believe is normal for fords and security light goes out when cranking also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Please excuse the typo above in the first sentence that should state that everything seems to point toward fuel but I don’t see how this is possible.
 

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2004 ZX3 SVT EE. 2004 ZX3 SVT
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Either the ignition switch is bad or the radio noise suppressor is shorted out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Either the ignition switch is bad or the radio noise suppressor is shorted out.
I already replaced the entire ignition Key lock assembly with ignition switch to restore the voltage that I was losing to the relay for the starter. I’ve got fuel, spark compression and the engine cranks what more could ignition be interfering with? And really the radio noise suppressor have you seen this before for a no start that will run on a fuel source?
 

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Removed fuel rail
With injectors installed and connector connected with each injector positioned into a collection container and fuel pressure gauge installed between rail and supply line. Cranked engine over fuel pressure was 55psi and each injector seems to pulse with a nice atomized mist when commanded on, reinstalled fuel rail to engine and tried to crank doesn't start,
How 'commanded on'?

After crank no-start if you remove spark plugs are they wet?

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How 'commanded on'?

After crank no-start if you remove spark plugs are they wet?

Paul
I don’t know if I would call them wet but they definitely don’t smell like fuel by any means. I guess that’s where I’m stumped because there is fuel to each cylinder through the injector the plugs don’t smell like excessive fuel the oil doesn’t smell like fuel and if I give it starter fluid through the throttlebody it will start up and run and if I keep spraying I can make the vehicle run at 2 to 3000 RPMs and Rev it up until I take the starter fluid away then it chugs installs out acts like It’s not getting fuel or has an extremely lean condition that’s not giving it enough fuel until I add the starter fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don’t know if I would call them wet but they definitely don’t smell like fuel by any means. I guess that’s where I’m stumped because there is fuel to each cylinder through the injector the plugs don’t smell like excessive fuel the oil doesn’t smell like fuel and if I give it starter fluid through the throttlebody it will start up and run and if I keep spraying I can make the vehicle run at 2 to 3000 RPMs and Rev it up until I take the starter fluid away then it chugs installs out acts like It’s not getting fuel or has an extremely lean condition that’s not giving it enough fuel until I add the starter fluid.
I have also verified spark through each coil and plug to ground with a test light and it’s got a nice strong spark.
 

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If it runs if you spray starting fluid, every element is present except fuel.
On many cars, if you crank with the throttle floored, it shuts down the fuel injection so you can clear the "flooded" engine.
If it sprays fuel by manually activating (in car?) while hooked up to the fuel rail, it means the injector is working.

So you'll have to check if fuel injector is getting the signal. If it isn't, then you have to see why it's not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If it runs if you spray starting fluid, every element is present except fuel.
On many cars, if you crank with the throttle floored, it shuts down the fuel injection so you can clear the "flooded" engine.
If it sprays fuel by manually activating (in car?) while hooked up to the fuel rail, it means the injector is working.

So you'll have to check if fuel injector is getting the signal. If it isn't, then you have to see why it's not.
I have verified control at each injector and both priming the system cranking the system and running the system using an external fuel source the fuel pressure gauge at the rail reads 55 psi no fluctuations or pressure drops when revving it up as soon as I take the fuel source away it stalls out. I also remove the fuel rail with the injectors still installed on it leaving each injector plugged in to its respective connector and crank the vehicle over from inside at the ignition and physically watched each injector spray a atomized mixture of fuel all injector spray patterns look consistent as well. This clearly tells me it has control and fuel getting to the cylinders but I don’t understand why it will only run being given fuel if it’s already got fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So here is where I am with this diagnosis everything seems to point to due but I don't see how. So vehicle drove to store fine then was parked customer when inside came out and said it started then once she placed it in reverse the vehicle shuttered and shut off and at that point would no longer crank. I went to look at it that evening verified her concern no crank verified that there was no power to the starter relay from ignition. After replacing the ignition lock module assembly cranking was restored but not able to start. Removed ignition coils found oil in the spark plug wells removed plugs checked compression 200 psi (some oil did enter the cylinders) plugs were worn replaced plugs and with plug installed in each coil verified a strong spark( could jump about a 1/2-1 inch gap) then removed valve cover set cylinder one to top dead cylinder and looked at cams both valve were closed and timing marks look right from what I can tell both are parallel on rear end of cams where cam sensor is at. Replaced valve cover gaskets and reassembled . Removed fuel rail
With injectors installed and connector connected with each injector positioned into a collection container and fuel pressure gauge installed between rail and supply line. Cranked engine over fuel pressure was 55psi and each injector seems to pulse with a nice atomized mist when commanded on, reinstalled fuel rail to engine and tried to crank doesn't start, tried introducing a fuel source into the air cleaner after the MAF and car started and could rev the engine up to about 2-3 k rpm and hold it until external fuel source was removed then would resume crank no start and after prime and allowing it to run and stall out fuel pressure gauge stays at 55 psi and doesn't ever drop or bleed off. I am honestly frustrated as I have been in this field for awhile ( don't have certifications but been in several shops and the field) but I am finding myself scratching my head and feel I am over looking something. I do hope you can help me resolve this issue and learn from this of nothing else. As far as codes battery was dead when I went to look at it I would assume she cranked it dead but it wouldn't crank so battery presumably failed as it was 5 years old but computer did show a cylinder 2 and 4 misfire in history but was reset after removing battery and there are still no codes set In the computer as of now other than for no monitors being ran. When cranking check engine light does go out which I believe is normal for fords and security light goes out when cranking also.
Update:

So last night I was able to get some more time with the vehicle I smoked the intake for leaks just to see what I find and the only leak visible appears to be the body of the EGR valve.

I mean sure it’s got a leak but I have had plenty of engines with a slight leak at the EGR valve or even one that’s partially stuck open but they would still at least start whether or not they ran smoother now it was a different story. Only other things I can see without actually pulling the EGR off is that on the scan tool it doesn’t show that it’s commanding the EGR valve to open and the valve position is at zero. I don’t presume that a slight leak at the EGR valve would cause my nose start but again maybe I’m wrong.

as far as the mass airflow sensor when I can get it to run it seems to read around 2 g/s and I don’t remember if the forwards do it but I tried to start it with the mass airflow unplug in case it would run on a default parameter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Update:

So last night I was able to get some more time with the vehicle I smoked the intake for leaks just to see what I find and the only leak visible appears to be the body of the EGR valve.

I mean sure it’s got a leak but I have had plenty of engines with a slight leak at the EGR valve or even one that’s partially stuck open but they would still at least start whether or not they ran smoother now it was a different story. Only other things I can see without actually pulling the EGR off is that on the scan tool it doesn’t show that it’s commanding the EGR valve to open and the valve position is at zero. I don’t presume that a slight leak at the EGR valve would cause my nose start but again maybe I’m wrong.

as far as the mass airflow sensor when I can get it to run it seems to read around 2 g/s and I don’t remember if the forwards do it but I tried to start it with the mass airflow unplug in case it would run on a default parameter.
Update:

The leaking EGR valve has been replaced no other leaks that I can identify but the vehicle is still a crank no start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So here is where I am with this diagnosis everything seems to point to due but I don't see how. So vehicle drove to store fine then was parked customer when inside came out and said it started then once she placed it in reverse the vehicle shuttered and shut off and at that point would no longer crank. I went to look at it that evening verified her concern no crank verified that there was no power to the starter relay from ignition. After replacing the ignition lock module assembly cranking was restored but not able to start. Removed ignition coils found oil in the spark plug wells removed plugs checked compression 200 psi (some oil did enter the cylinders) plugs were worn replaced plugs and with plug installed in each coil verified a strong spark( could jump about a 1/2-1 inch gap) then removed valve cover set cylinder one to top dead cylinder and looked at cams both valve were closed and timing marks look right from what I can tell both are parallel on rear end of cams where cam sensor is at. Replaced valve cover gaskets and reassembled . Removed fuel rail
With injectors installed and connector connected with each injector positioned into a collection container and fuel pressure gauge installed between rail and supply line. Cranked engine over fuel pressure was 55psi and each injector seems to pulse with a nice atomized mist when commanded on, reinstalled fuel rail to engine and tried to crank doesn't start, tried introducing a fuel source into the air cleaner after the MAF and car started and could rev the engine up to about 2-3 k rpm and hold it until external fuel source was removed then would resume crank no start and after prime and allowing it to run and stall out fuel pressure gauge stays at 55 psi and doesn't ever drop or bleed off. I am honestly frustrated as I have been in this field for awhile ( don't have certifications but been in several shops and the field) but I am finding myself scratching my head and feel I am over looking something. I do hope you can help me resolve this issue and learn from this of nothing else. As far as codes battery was dead when I went to look at it I would assume she cranked it dead but it wouldn't crank so battery presumably failed as it was 5 years old but computer did show a cylinder 2 and 4 misfire in history but was reset after removing battery and there are still no codes set In the computer as of now other than for no monitors being ran. When cranking check engine light does go out which I believe is normal for fords and security light goes out when cranking also.
SOLVED:

good morning focus fanatics,

Just wanted to update you all and let you know that this vehicle’s been fixed. Thank you all for your help and support it was greatly appreciated.
This morning I finally decided to pump all the fuel out of the tank and start fresh because I couldn’t get my mind past clearly being a fuel issue And sure enough after letting the fuel sit it’s separated in there was a very large amount of presumably water or possibly incorrect ethanol content in the future.
I feel bad that it took this long to get there but I just couldn’t understand why it went from working to not within maybe a half hour timeframe at most and there’s no evidence that anybody tampered with it needless to say A eighth of a tank of unleaded 87 octane and it fired right up. At least it got a good inspection and all the things that didn’t need throughout that process were corrected.
Thank you again and if anyone’s like me I figured you would appreciate knowing this one was fixed and getting a resolution.
 

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SOLVED:

good morning focus fanatics,

Just wanted to update you all and let you know that this vehicle’s been fixed. Thank you all for your help and support it was greatly appreciated.
This morning I finally decided to pump all the fuel out of the tank and start fresh because I couldn’t get my mind past clearly being a fuel issue And sure enough after letting the fuel sit it’s separated in there was a very large amount of presumably water or possibly incorrect ethanol content in the future.
I feel bad that it took this long to get there but I just couldn’t understand why it went from working to not within maybe a half hour timeframe at most and there’s no evidence that anybody tampered with it needless to say A eighth of a tank of unleaded 87 octane and it fired right up. At least it got a good inspection and all the things that didn’t need throughout that process were corrected.
Thank you again and if anyone’s like me I figured you would appreciate knowing this one was fixed and getting a resolution.
Thank you for the update. My Dad took his 79 Honda Civic off the road.It later turned out to be a bad tank of gas. He had the head rebuilt and the car still wouldn't stay running. I finally siphoned some gas out of the tank and it wouldn't even run the lawn mower so I had to pull the tank for a thorough cleaning.i was only 17 and had no idea. I admire your perseverance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thank you for the update. My Dad took his 79 Honda Civic off the road.It later turned out to be a bad tank of gas. He had the head rebuilt and the car still wouldn't stay running. I finally siphoned some gas out of the tank and it wouldn't even run the lawn mower so I had to pull the tank for a thorough cleaning.i was only 17 and had no idea. I admire your perseverance.
Thank you.
 

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I'd run double dose of HEET, then use up the tank to get rid of traces of water, then replace the fuel filter. Fuel filter is made with paper, which is fuel resistant but it is not meant to get wet with water, so it's a good precaution to replace it.
 
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