[cannaert]

I noticed that when it drops below 50*F that my car has a hard time getting started. I think its a fuel pump issue but I don't know for sure.
If I jump in car turn the key on a cold morning it will just crank and crank with no attempt at it even firing.
But if I cycle the key a few time or let the ignition sit in the ON position for a minute then turn it back off then back on it fires right up.

Could the fuel pump be going, or water on top of the sending unit?

I am going to pick up a new relay, well at work tomorrow and see if that is the issue but if Not I am going to be scratching my head on this one..

 

[Dokuzon]

After starting are there any other issues?

Given it is a cold start issue it might be worth checking the battery, would be good to rule it out first before digging to deep into fuel systems.

 

[sailor]

Moved to General Tech Chat

'05 was known for this, second try or cycle key for a cold start.

"reflash" avail. at Dealer if it hasn't ever been done.


Otherwise it might be a sign of a fuel pump assy. problem, check valve not holding pressure. DON'T go replacing it without checking with a scan tool to see what the pressure is doing, waste of too much effort & $.

 

[cannaert]

After starting are there any other issues?

Given it is a cold start issue it might be worth checking the battery, would be good to rule it out first before digging to deep into fuel systems.

Thought the battery was the issue and I swapped that out the day after I noticed the issue and it still does it.

Moved to General Tech Chat

'05 was known for this, second try or cycle key for a cold start.

"reflash" avail. at Dealer if it hasn't ever been done.

Otherwise it might be a sign of a fuel pump assy. problem, check valve not holding pressure. DON'T go replacing it without checking with a scan tool to see what the pressure is doing, waste of too much effort & $.

I will have to take it in and see if they can tell me if that was done. But I sure a hell don't have the money to have that done unless it was a freebie issue.

If it is a Fuel pump its not big deal for me to do it. I work at a Parts store so parts cost is not that huge of a deal, the time thing is what I don't have.

 

[pcordes1979]

If you have access to a scantool or ELM327 based OBD2 reader device check to see what the coolant temperature is being read as when cold. I bring this up as a previous car I owned had a no start when "cold" issue which ended up being a bad temperature sender (was a 1986 Oldsmobile with OBD1 so none of these dirt cheap OBD2 readers like we have now). If it is way off of where it should be (right around ambient temperature if left sitting over night) then probably a bad sender, if not that at least you ruled it out.

In my case, the car would crank and crank and crank would do it for 10-15 minutes in the morning but once it started up it was fine and when I went to start the car in the afternoon it was fine too, just the overnight "cold" start would cause problems.

 

[cannaert]

Pcordes1979 that could be the issue I am having. That is exactly what it is doing to me. I will have to see is I can find out if anyone I know has a scanner that does more than just read codes.

 

[sailor]

Can't tell much sometimes without that tool, guessing to throw parts at it gets MUCH more expensive.

 

[cannaert]

I get that I could throw money at it but for me to go to a shop and have them look at and do a diagnostic test on it I am going to be spending around 3 hours and at $65-$95 an hour for their "time", It freaking Sucks living in Michigan and so close to the Metro Detroit area. We are one of the three Highest costing places in the US can really hurt the wallet.
I am looking for a reader but no luck so far.

 

[Leora83]

Then the cheap fix is to remember to cycle the key when it's cold.
It won't hurt it, and if it really is the fuel pump, it'll let you know soon enough.

 

[cannaert]

I am not trying to sound like I am being a cheap ass but right now I am doing the whole living paycheck to paycheck life again and I hate it. I NEED to get it fixed soon, Today I had to wait ten minutes before it kicked on, It was a cold one this morning, 30* out there, and it cut me so close to being late for work.

 

[JFrye]

Cant you just test the fuel pressure? Im not for certain, but isnt there a test port on the fuel rail on the duratecs?

 

[pcordes1979]

There is no fuel rail test port on any Focus to my knowledge, even the predecessor vehicle the Escort the fuel rail pressure valve got phased out around 2000 or so on it. Need a scan tool to see the fuel pressure.

However Massive Speed does sell this http://www.massivespeedsystem.com/_massive_speed_system_/massive_fuel_rail_adaptor/g-59048.aspx which allows one to add a fuel pressure gauge to ones vehicle.

 

[Leora83]

You're in Illinois, so I'm guessing you have a block heater...why not plug the car in? Or get ready ten minutes earlier...

Nothing wrong with being cheap, as long as it's not endangering your life by not having brakes or something important.

 

[cannaert]

I am in Michigan.
No I dont have a block heater in my car. It gets cold here but nothing like the cold you get in Ottawa. Plus I don't think a block heater will help if its is a fuel issue.

I swapped out the Relay this afternoon and I will see if that fixes the issue tomorrow morning.

 

[cannaert]

Swapped the Fuel Pump Relay and the Engine management relays and it work fine this morning but I will now for sure tomorrow after I let the car sit for over 15 hours

 

[cannaert]

Ok, So I have had good luck with it starting every time i hope in and go until this past week. With this super cold hitting up it is having a hell of a time starting.

I now have to turn the key On and Off over 50 times before I hear the pump even turn on.

I did a search on the ECM Flash and am not finding much on here on the issue. Anyone have a helpful website or more info on this issue?

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

Eh... that might be more expensive than you think. I am running my original fuel pump at 170k miles. I've read where people have run them until 230k, however, I would still say that any time after 100k miles the fuel pump is suspect. It sounds like your problem is more electrical than mechanical though. Cycling the key several times before the fuel pump turns on leads me to believe that you have a bad fuel pump relay---- but I think you just changed that, right?

The only other part in line with the fuel pump is the fuel pump controller. I do not recommend simply swapping that dude to see if it fixes the problem. It's located under the passenger side of the rear seat, but it's not cheap at all.

There is the inertia switch also, but that one should stay closed until there is a hard bump, so I wouldn't expect it to freeze open.

 

[whynotthinkwhynot]

OH crap... I know what it is. And once again it's not cheap--- the fuel sensor. If the fuel sensor is not sending the information to the fuel pump, then it won't turn on. The fuel sensor can be affected by water in the fuel, which would account for it's non-working nature in the cold. Disconnect the vacuum line going to your fuel sensor, and I bet fuel comes out of it, or at least there is the strong smell of fuel. To save money, and get yourself going less than 50 cycles, you might be able to rest a hand warmer on top of the fuel sensor until the engine starts to see if that reduces the number of cycles. If so, theory proven.

 

[cannaert]

Ok. So this morning its 30 out and the SOB fired right up. Now its really messing with me.


Where is that fuel sensor at? I want to try that one out today after the car sits all day all I am at work.

 

[sailor]

Sensor is on the fuel rail, look for an item with an electrical connector & the vacuum hose whynot mentioned.

Fuel out the hose would be a bad sensor, it's only supposed to get manifold vacuum there for a reference pressure.