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Old 04-10-2019, 01:02 PM   #1
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Unhappy Master to ABS line size ???

Guys, I replaced the master cylinder on a 2003 Wagon with Zetec engine and 4 wheel ABS. I have rear drums. The Master cylinder is a 2 port type.

I cut the lines off because they were rusted to the point I couldn't undo them. I was thinking I could just grab a metric replacement line and drop in. That hasn't gone according to plan because I can't FIND it in New England.

So, the lines are 6 mm bubble flare with a 12 mm nut. I can't even find generic precut lengths and didn't want to pay the dealer whatever they're asking.

So, I'm looking at 2 options:

1) Drill out 12 mm nuts to accommodate 1/4" nicopp (closest equivalent to 6 mm). Attempt to make satisfactory bubble flares. I bought the tool from NAPA but my bubble flares are looking kinda crappy to me compared with stock. I've never made bubble flares, always double inverted...so I'm not sure how much of a perfectionist I need to be here.

2) Run 3/16 line instead. Use standard 3/16 nuts and use a 12 mm adapter on each end of the Master to ABS lines.

Has anyone else run into this? What was your solution? Every other vehicle I've ever seen has 3/16 lines EVERYWHERE, including the master cylinder.

PS: the only 12mm nuts I have been able to lay my hands on are designed for 3/16 line, hence why I'm drilling them out to accommodate 1/4 line.


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Old 04-10-2019, 03:09 PM   #2
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This would probably have been better off in brakes and suspension.

You're in a bit of a bad place with this. I'd suggest though that you really do not want to drill out the fittings. You may have to order the parts, but it'll be more reliable, and brakes are not something that you want to mess with. the hydraulic system is under very high pressure when you're on the brakes, and any failure in that system can literally kill you. If you end up at fault in an accident, and anyone finds out that you made alterations to your brake system, even if that wasn't the cause, the ramifications could be really expensive.

I know it doesn't help now, but this is why it's a really bad idea to cut when you don't already have the replacement parts.

In any event, I would strongly advise against any drilling or modification of adapter fittings. I would much rather run a different size line f you can find nuts that work with a 3/16" line, that's probably better than drilling to accommodate a 1/4" line, even if that size is closer to stock.

I would probably start hitting the wreckers and looking for a serviceable set of lines from there, or at least the fittings. 2003 is about the right age to have lots of them available in the wrecking yards.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
This would probably have been better off in brakes and suspension.

You're in a bit of a bad place with this. I'd suggest though that you really do not want to drill out the fittings. You may have to order the parts, but it'll be more reliable, and brakes are not something that you want to mess with. the hydraulic system is under very high pressure when you're on the brakes, and any failure in that system can literally kill you. If you end up at fault in an accident, and anyone finds out that you made alterations to your brake system, even if that wasn't the cause, the ramifications could be really expensive.

I know it doesn't help now, but this is why it's a really bad idea to cut when you don't already have the replacement parts.

In any event, I would strongly advise against any drilling or modification of adapter fittings. I would much rather run a different size line f you can find nuts that work with a 3/16" line, that's probably better than drilling to accommodate a 1/4" line, even if that size is closer to stock.

I would probably start hitting the wreckers and looking for a serviceable set of lines from there, or at least the fittings. 2003 is about the right age to have lots of them available in the wrecking yards.
Thanks Supraguy. It's a sticky wicket as you folks say LOL.

As for the OE Fittings, my 1/4 in line did not fit through it. No parts stores around here carry brake nuts in 12 x 1.0 for 1/4 line. I found ONE so far on the whole freaking internet:

https://store.fedhillusa.com/m84.aspx

I'm hoping this will work
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
This would probably have been better off in brakes and suspension.

You're in a bit of a bad place with this. I'd suggest though that you really do not want to drill out the fittings. You may have to order the parts, but it'll be more reliable, and brakes are not something that you want to mess with. the hydraulic system is under very high pressure when you're on the brakes, and any failure in that system can literally kill you. If you end up at fault in an accident, and anyone finds out that you made alterations to your brake system, even if that wasn't the cause, the ramifications could be really expensive.

I know it doesn't help now, but this is why it's a really bad idea to cut when you don't already have the replacement parts.

In any event, I would strongly advise against any drilling or modification of adapter fittings. I would much rather run a different size line f you can find nuts that work with a 3/16" line, that's probably better than drilling to accommodate a 1/4" line, even if that size is closer to stock.

I would probably start hitting the wreckers and looking for a serviceable set of lines from there, or at least the fittings. 2003 is about the right age to have lots of them available in the wrecking yards.
As far as junkyard fittings, bear in mind we have very snowy winters and crap loads of salt. This car saw plenty of it. I had to replace the running boards and most of the brake plumbing. There's worse, particularly around the Great Lakes but in my town, we average 58 inches of snow per year.

Around here, I wouldn't even buy a used radiator. I did so ONCE and paid dearly for it.

Thanks for the advice so far. Please tell me what you think of that part I found.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:49 PM   #5
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The part you found seems suitable.

I understand snow and salt. I'm Canadian. Some wreckers not close to you will ship parts if you ask. I have bought corrosion-prone parts from some wreckers on the west coast, where there's a pretty good chance of getting ones in decent condition.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraGuy View Post
The part you found seems suitable.

I understand snow and salt. I'm Canadian. Some wreckers not close to you will ship parts if you ask. I have bought corrosion-prone parts from some wreckers on the west coast, where there's a pretty good chance of getting ones in decent condition.
LOL, I saw your icon so I knew you're Canadian. I just meant that our winters in New England get boat loads of snow and freeze/thaw cycles. Rust is terrible around here.

I have to say that was a good idea about checking out salvage yards outside my area. I'd honestly never thought of it. Places in Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico etc probably have Foci with almost no rust at all!

Last edited by blainsbrains; 04-10-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:53 AM   #7
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Post #5 is right, use the correct parts. If you have an accident and indeed somebody finds out you modded brakes then you will be that opposing lawyer's b-tch for the rest of your life.

Screw around with any other parts you want but leave the brakes just like they came on the car, by far the wisest thing to do.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:00 AM   #8
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Post #5 is right, use the correct parts. If you have an accident and indeed somebody finds out you modded brakes then you will be that opposing lawyer's b-tch for the rest of your life.

Screw around with any other parts you want but leave the brakes just like they came on the car, by far the wisest thing to do.
Thanks AMC, I've always seen you give good advice as well as SupraGuy. I ordered those brake nuts last night. It turns out the company is fairly local so I should receive them Friday or Saturday. The brake nuts were reasonably priced in multiples so it makes total sense to wait and use the proper fitting...now that I found it.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:33 PM   #9
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AMC I found the exact lines I need but don't remember how they're routes and I forgot to snap a photo before I removed them. I found a 2 photos on the forum but I want to ask to make certain. It looks like the master cylinder line closer to the firewall runs to the right input on ABS and the line closer to the radiator runs to the left ABS port. Is this correct?
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:25 PM   #10
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I cannot say, my cars are non-ABS, I loathe ABS. I went so far as to remove it off my Contour.
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Last edited by amc49; 04-15-2019 at 09:30 PM.
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