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Old 09-07-2015, 03:49 PM   #11
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Old 09-08-2015, 11:20 AM   #12
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Replied. Thanks for helping out!

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Old 03-01-2017, 12:58 AM   #13
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Replied. Thanks for helping out!

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Hey Jerry,

Did your long tooth final gear project ever materialize? This thread kind of died.
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Old 03-01-2017, 09:08 AM   #14
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Hey Jerry,

Did your long tooth final gear project ever materialize? This thread kind of died.
Thanks for checking back.

No luck. For the few companies that expressed initial interest, once I explained that we were talking about numbers of gearsets in the single digits, they quickly lost interest. The cost is in the setup, not the production. And I have been told it is not just producing a new ring gear with different numbers of teeth, but the ring and pinion gears have to be produced as a matching set. While I am not sure why a ring gear with less teeth couldn't be properly spaced and have the right depth (different than adding teeth), all the other conventional swaps I have done did have ring and pinion gears as matching sets.

I am exploring what other trannys might match up to our cars. The second Gen Mini has what appears to be a similar transmission, but a different part number. I am trying to ascertain what the differences are and whether it is just the housing shape that the internals could be swapped into or otherwise. While a tranny swap would not be cheap, it is certainly going to be way less than a ring and pinion gears custom made. What we really need is someone with inside knowledge of Getrag products to be able to tell us if any other transmissions would work.

I still think this is worth pursuing as all my other swaps have worked out fantastically. But is it not easy and not going to be cheap. On a cost basis, it is much more economical to simply run the stock gearing.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
Thanks for checking back.

No luck. For the few companies that expressed initial interest, once I explained that we were talking about numbers of gearsets in the single digits, they quickly lost interest. The cost is in the setup, not the production. And I have been told it is not just producing a new ring gear with different numbers of teeth, but the ring and pinion gears have to be produced as a matching set. While I am not sure why a ring gear with less teeth couldn't be properly spaced and have the right depth (different than adding teeth), all the other conventional swaps I have done did have ring and pinion gears as matching sets.

I am exploring what other trannys might match up to our cars. The second Gen Mini has what appears to be a similar transmission, but a different part number. I am trying to ascertain what the differences are and whether it is just the housing shape that the internals could be swapped into or otherwise. While a tranny swap would not be cheap, it is certainly going to be way less than a ring and pinion gears custom made. What we really need is someone with inside knowledge of Getrag products to be able to tell us if any other transmissions would work.

I still think this is worth pursuing as all my other swaps have worked out fantastically. But is it not easy and not going to be cheap. On a cost basis, it is much more economical to simply run the stock gearing.

Regards,
Jerry
So I thought I would update this thread.

I think I have found a way to change the gearing, but only a fool would spend the $$$ necessary. But then again........:)

After many hours of research, I believe I have a tranny that can be swapped out. Since the MCS and the Focus share a transmission (other than perhaps minor differences in the casing), this should work for both cars if it works for the MCS. Worse case is to swap the entire internals from the new tranny to the old tranny case (carefully!).

I have my car booked the end of the month for some power upgrades (I now have a convertible instead of the hardtop, better mechanicals with the John Cooper Works package, but same otherwise). When the car goes in for the power upgrades, I am going to try to swap out the tranny intact (other than replacing the open diff with the LSD in my current tranny).

In THEORY, after much research, the tranny SHOULD swap over. But until it is put in and tested, don't know.

The new tranny has different ratios, with 1st gear being similar (actually a little deeper) and top gear being about 20% taller. 6th goes from (overall) 2.986 for Focus and 3.126 MCS to 2.410. So takeoff from a dead stop should not be affected, but the ratios will be wider, mostly in 3-6. If interested, I can post the comparison, but mph/1000 rpm in 6th will go from about 24 to 30.

Parts cost of the tranny swap will be a little under $1000, plus whatever service it needs (fresh fluid) so from an economic point of view, not a very good return to save a little fuel and a little wear and tear on the motor. But then we often do things without being concerned about the economic consequences!!! :)

If this works for me, there is no reason it should not work for the Focus's (Foci???) here. Sourcing the tranny is outside the U.S. so factor in shipping costs also. Not for folks on a budget!!LOL

Stay tuned.......

Regards,
Jerry
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:06 PM   #16
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Update: closure

Well, it has been done, but it was more difficult than imagined.

First of all, this is NOT a cost effective measure. It works fine, but the amount of money to acquire the parts and the labor to do the swap is way beyond reasonable. Unless you do all of your own labor AND you know how to open up the tranny and feel comfortable working with it, you will need some help. $$$

The diesel transmission from the (Europe only) Mini diesel has the gearsets we need. The thought was to simply swap trannys (and as long as everything was apart, update the clutch).

It turns out the diesel Mini and the U.S. Mini have different bellhousings on the tranny. Well, that makes sense, the petrol car has an engine made by a different manufacturer than the diesel, the engine to which it mates up is made by Toyota.

When we swapped the diesel gearsets into my original tranny case, we found another issue we could not have anticipated. While we knew the tooth count would be different, we couldn't know that the diesel gearsets have slightly thicker gears and ever slightly larger diameter.. This may be due to the nature of the diesel, which puts out a lot of torque for the limited power. So when the tranny was put back together we found something hitting the case. It was the slightly thicker gears. So we machined the gear casing to create a little extra clearance. While apart, the diesel synchros looked very worn, so we swapped in mine which were in very good condition.

Everything works like it should. The tranny shifts beautifully, the Valeo single mass clutch needed about 100 miles to break in (still working on that, but very smooth and light) and with the power adders, the car pulls great.

So in summary, the taller ratios work great, but the cost to accomplish this is pretty much going to assure that I will have a one off setup!!!

Regards,
Jerry
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:08 AM   #17
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Great mod for ppl looking to drop some rpm's in higher gears & boosted cars. You'd think the gears would swap over, but as you found out you'd have to take in a count of the diesel's grunt hence the slightly bigger diameter gears & clearancing the case. Great you checked/looked over the synchro's & swapped them out.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:23 AM   #18
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Congratulations Jerry! Do you know what the gearing ratio is for the diesel transmission? What kind of RPM differences are you now seeing? Do you feel like it was a good improvement?
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:05 AM   #19
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Here are the different ratios. For your purpose, look at the "early" Mini gears, the switch came in July of 2004. The SVT should have the early (slightly taller) gearing. I started with the later ratios, which are a little stiffer:


|Mini Cooper S ratios |**** |
+---+-----------+-----------+
| 1 |** 11.425* |** 12.789* |
| 2 |*** 7.181* |*** 7.793* |
| 3 |*** 5.397* |*** 5.651* |
| 4 |*** 4.407* |*** 4.615* |
| 5 |*** 3.656* |*** 3.828* |
| 6 |*** 2.986* |*** 3.126* |
| R |** 11.130* |** 11.944* |
+---+-----------+-----------+
*** | > 06/2004 | 07/2004 > |
*** +-----------+-----------+

MINI Diesel:
+---+-----------+
| G |********** |
| e |* Overall* |
| a |** Ratio** |
| r |********** |
+---+-----------+
| 1 |** 12.570* |
| 2 |*** 6.990* |
| 3 |*** 4.510* |
| 4 |*** 3.550* |
| 5 |*** 3.050* |
| 6 |*** 2.410* |
| R |** 11.130* |
+---+-----------+

I don't know what the individual gears and rear ends are. As you know 3rd and 5th are the same gear as is 4th and 6th. I can list speed in gears for both, but I don't have a chart, so it would be a little tough to show.

Just getting acclimated, but the ratios are working exactly as I thought. 1st is almost the same, but by the time I hit 3rd it is the same as old 4th. 4th is about the same as old 5th and new 5th is a little taller than old 6th. I go from about 23 mph/1000 rpm to 30 mph per 1000 rpm in 6th. The drop on the highway (where is matters, driving in town is just in 1 gear lower) is about 500 rpm. I will get a better feel as I put some miles on it.

Am I happy? Actually, yes. I know I was giving up torque multiplication, so when I have done this on other cars (just swap the diff and reprogram computer), I always added some mechanical power to offset the loss.

I think the engine will be more relaxed on the highway, improve mpg as a side benefit and adding back power to the motor will negate the taller gears. For the Mini, the 6 speed automatic has virtually the same top gear ratio as my new setup, so I know the motor can pull the gear, even stock. Only difference (with new cam setup) is the power has moved up the power band, so if I want to hustle, I need to spin about 3500, where she really pulls hard. 6th gear will be primarily highway, above 60 or 65 mph.

Regards,
Jerry

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Originally Posted by RevLimit View Post
Congratulations Jerry! Do you know what the gearing ratio is for the diesel transmission? What kind of RPM differences are you now seeing? Do you feel like it was a good improvement?

Last edited by gsfent; 12-03-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:39 PM   #20
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I am eager to hear what kind of changes you get in MPG from the improved gearing.
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