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Old 10-01-2019, 09:33 PM   #1
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Endurance racing chassis setup

After dabbling in lemons and chumpcar for a few years with other teams, decided to try and build a team/car of my own with goals of going into now named champ as well as possibly wrl. Chose the SVT focus as I know the motor and car very well (owned a few over the years and run a zetec in a kit car). That said, I never really got much into race suspension setups on this car.

As it stands, the car is running tein springs, stock svt shocks and eibach sways (22/25mm).

After running the first race this spring, observed that the ~2.5deg of front camber wasn't nearly sufficient so got in on the cfm lca group buy. After some modifications, got that up to ~3.5-3.7deg. Ran a second race last week and the car now turns in phenomenally and wears tires much better, but lap times haven't really improved.

Even with the stiff sways, the car still dives considerably and is pretty soft. Now we do run on some pretty darn bumpy tracks (Harris Hill Raceway for example) so I don't want to go to something meant for F1 tracks only. But I am finding that the teins just feel too darn soft.

I am limited to non-adjustable rebound shocks as adjustables cost points, but I am willing to go to coilovers, or make my own coilovers. Was debating going either with something like h&r race springs or building coilovers on top of bilsteins with a high fixed rate spring, but would rather not keep throwing money at an unknown...

The question for the road racers really is, what do you feel is the best combination of shocks/springs and sways for enduro racing on tracks that aren't necessarily always baby smooth?


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Old 10-01-2019, 10:30 PM   #2
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Add a Steeda race bar....1.125'' or try one of James Barone Racing, Aftermarket Performance bars......
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:19 AM   #3
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When you say "Dive", do you mean Dive under braking or Body Roll?
Springs will help the dive and sway bars will help the roll. Stiffer Springs and changing some geometry also help roll too.

What are your current spring rates?
Front Coilovers are not that hard to build yourself if you are handy. Opens up your spring options with 2.5" ID springs. I'm running 175lb 12" Eibachs on my SVT struts. Mine is more of a Rally style, but still way stiffer than stock and corners much better on pavement than stock. Takes the bumps great, which was my main goal.
Rear spring options are limited unless you modify the mounts to take coilover springs as well. I think Magus2727 is running something like 450lb springs in the stock location.
Moving the springs outboard (rear coilover) will let you accomplish the same thing with a lighter spring.
I have wagon springs that are cut down to get the height I want. They are 166lb originally, but after cutting 3 coils off them, they are now around 225ish. Cut more coils to get it lower and stiffer. Cheap to buy and play around with. Like $80 for a pair of Moog springs. Again, mine is higher than stock but still stiffer. But still works well on pavement

Last edited by DirtyDave; 10-02-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:21 AM   #4
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Changing the front end geometry will help too. Control arm mounting points, Spacing the lower balljoint/heim down in relation to the knuckle, adding more caster, etc.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:28 AM   #5
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A few of us play with road race setup here. I run Koni non adjustable front coil overs with spring rates that depending on track range from 450-700. The rears I am stuck within the rules to as remain like stock as for separate spring shock. We run H&R spring and shock. Spring rates in the rear start at 700 all the way to 1100 depending on track. Is 1100 to stiff, not on the track we run and the curbs become something to be aware of. The rear bar is big for our setup but it works. We use the JBR unit and have been very pleased.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msperber View Post
A few of us play with road race setup here. I run Koni non adjustable front coil overs with spring rates that depending on track range from 450-700. The rears I am stuck within the rules to as remain like stock as for separate spring shock. We run H&R spring and shock. Spring rates in the rear start at 700 all the way to 1100 depending on track. Is 1100 to stiff, not on the track we run and the curbs become something to be aware of. The rear bar is big for our setup but it works. We use the JBR unit and have been very pleased.
Wow, I didn't know guys were running springs that stiff in the rear. I know with them mounted inboard the motion ratio is not ideal. That's a lot of stress on the control arm.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:09 AM   #7
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Inspection of everything every time is key, after 5 years no issues at all. We set it up for rear rotation and we do have a little more power than stock. We run R7 225 size so there is plenty of tire. Not much more than -3 in camber.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:57 AM   #8
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Great info, thanks guys. I should clarify a few things...

Dive - both under braking and roll in corners. the sways do help with the roll but springs are too soft even here.

I don't know the spring rate - the tein s springs are progressive - they're really street lowering springs. I used these largely because they were cheap and readily available and I had other things to worry about at that time.

Per champcar rules I am limited to what I can do with shocks/springs without incurring crazy points.

I have to stay under <2x factory cost for shocks, otherwise the point cost is obscene.
I would also love to keep the stock diameter to avoid paying points on that as well. If I can't, fine, I'll do it, but ideally only in the front.

----------

Relevant sections from the rule book:

- Shock absorbers / struts over the 2x cost limit and/or with damping adjustment, 25 pts per corner
- Springs, non-OE coil springs (including ‘coil-over’ kit):10 pts per corner
Exemption: Competition vehicles may replace OE coil springs for 0 pts provided that the replacement maintains the exact same ID/O

----------

Mike, for the Koni's up front, did you go with 2.5" springs or stock diameter? For the H&R rears are you able to get those spring rates in the factory sizes?

I can see how you wouldn't need as much static camber when running much stiffer springs. The mcphearson setup really bites when it comes to static camber and soft springs.

With the JBR unit, do you just run the race rear and leave the factory front alone?

Also note that in enduro we're tied to 200 treadwear tires, no R7s here!
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:31 AM   #9
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Front is 2.5 as are the rear springs, we use a short 6” spring to get to the ride height min of 5” at the rocker panel. No front bar, we found that it lead to more understeer at the limit and with our spring rates the rotation was more important. I also have 4 piston front calibers so stopping isn’t an issue.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msperber View Post
Inspection of everything every time is key, after 5 years no issues at all. We set it up for rear rotation and we do have a little more power than stock. We run R7 225 size so there is plenty of tire. Not much more than -3 in camber.
A little more power than stock = LOL!!
Good luck at the runoffs Michael. Sorry I've been so out of touch...
But I'll be monitoring your practice, qualifying and race via internet.
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