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MK3 TSB, Recall & Problems Archive The place to chat about TSB and Known Issues for the 2012 Focus.

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Old 09-17-2015, 12:51 PM   #91
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I had this FSA done Tuesday, and the very next day, it began shuddering again in first gear. I'm convinced its a bad TCM, or a bad actuator. The dealer service mgr continues to insist that it's the clutch slipping / hopping, but not enough to meet specs for replacement. When it does its shuddering, it will do it with even the lightest throttle input, yet, if I floor it, there is no hop or shudder whatsoever. That is NOT clutch slip, that is bad software or electronics, period! But, they refuse to do anything, as they tell me it's within spec. Shuddering enough to bob your head back and forth is NOT NORMAL, despite what they say. This is ridiculous. I have bought 4 new Ford vehicles over the years, and owned a total of 5. Never again... they lost me as a repeat customer. He actually had the audacity to reassure me that the warranty covered the transmission for an extended time period, to which I responded, what good does having a warranty do me if I can't use it to get my car fixed?
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:30 PM   #92
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Yup, AFAIK from the info. avail. here this update does NOTHING regarding shudder issues. Strictly added coding for TCM issue warnings & DTC codes.

Symptoms you mention seem to resemble clutch engagement "shudder" (chatter) for manual transmissions. Worst under low load, disappearing under higher load.

Many factors come into play regarding clutch chatter - speed of engagement, friction coefficients, torque load and resonant frequencies of free play/dampening in the system.

In my experience with manual transmissions, once chatter starts it gets progressively worse as long as the same conditions apply. "Smoothing out" or "burning the clutch smooth" (two different levels of action) with slower engagement to encourage smoother slipping and possibly added power to keep the slipping smoother are both ways to defeat the progression and return the clutch to normal operation.

This matches some DCT advice given here to accelerate hard regularly for maint. and take it out for a few hard acceleration runs to "clean it up" if it gets worse.

I'll add the guess that varied use is prob. best as it changes the engagement speed & torque levels, avoiding the "consistent" engagements of the automated system that may contribute to the problem MORE than the inconsistent clutch use normal for "human" clutch operation.

Extended low speed stop & go emphasizes repeated low torque engagement/disengagement without enough "slip" to keep it smooth - I assume with the intent to reduce the heat gain from slip that seems to make it worse.

Speedy shifting without time for rev. matching just means the clutches slip on every shift, unlike typical manual use where slip is only used taking off in first when done well. This adds to the chatter creation possibilities IMHO.

Just how to "solve" the issue completely and keep users happy with consistent/smooth operation is a tougher question, and I'll leave that open for suggestions rather than ramble on.

P.S. - I like your guess at possible actuator involvement, not engaging smoothly at a proper rate could easily be a causative factor.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:20 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Yup, AFAIK from the info. avail. here this update does NOTHING regarding shudder issues. Strictly added coding for TCM issue warnings & DTC codes.

Symptoms you mention seem to resemble clutch engagement "shudder" (chatter) for manual transmissions. Worst under low load, disappearing under higher load.

Many factors come into play regarding clutch chatter - speed of engagement, friction coefficients, torque load and resonant frequencies of free play/dampening in the system.

In my experience with manual transmissions, once chatter starts it gets progressively worse as long as the same conditions apply. "Smoothing out" or "burning the clutch smooth" (two different levels of action) with slower engagement to encourage smoother slipping and possibly added power to keep the slipping smoother are both ways to defeat the progression and return the clutch to normal operation.

This matches some DCT advice given here to accelerate hard regularly for maint. and take it out for a few hard acceleration runs to "clean it up" if it gets worse.

I'll add the guess that varied use is prob. best as it changes the engagement speed & torque levels, avoiding the "consistent" engagements of the automated system that may contribute to the problem MORE than the inconsistent clutch use normal for "human" clutch operation.

Extended low speed stop & go emphasizes repeated low torque engagement/disengagement without enough "slip" to keep it smooth - I assume with the intent to reduce the heat gain from slip that seems to make it worse.

Speedy shifting without time for rev. matching just means the clutches slip on every shift, unlike typical manual use where slip is only used taking off in first when done well. This adds to the chatter creation possibilities IMHO.

Just how to "solve" the issue completely and keep users happy with consistent/smooth operation is a tougher question, and I'll leave that open for suggestions rather than ramble on.

P.S. - I like your guess at possible actuator involvement, not engaging smoothly at a proper rate could easily be a causative factor.
That makes sense, as I have not had much of an issue after driving like a high schooler for a while. I don't typically have issues with shudder unless I'm in sport-6. Does anyone else experience this? I've only had the jerking issue in 1-2 for a few months a while ago. I can see the RPMs flair up to 250 RPMs on the dial when the car starts vibrating (again, only in sport-6), and putting the car in D will stop the vibrations, but not the RPM flairs.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:27 AM   #94
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My car has been running like shit after this update. The shuddering is horrible and the car has had more than enough time to "learn."

I'm going to try to call my dealer today and see what they say- which will probably be to the tune of "give it another 500 miles it's still learning" nonsense.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:27 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zehkaiser View Post
That makes sense, as I have not had much of an issue after driving like a high schooler for a while. I don't typically have issues with shudder unless I'm in sport-6. Does anyone else experience this? I've only had the jerking issue in 1-2 for a few months a while ago. I can see the RPMs flair up to 250 RPMs on the dial when the car starts vibrating (again, only in sport-6), and putting the car in D will stop the vibrations, but not the RPM flairs.
What is Sport-6 ? I only have a D and S mode with select shift. I commonly use Sport mode unless I'm on the highway. It holds first gear rpms a little higher, and uses engine braking more to conserve brake pad wear.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:28 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
My car has been running like shit after this update. The shuddering is horrible and the car has had more than enough time to "learn."

I'm going to try to call my dealer today and see what they say- which will probably be to the tune of "give it another 500 miles it's still learning" nonsense.
Or like me, they tell me it's within spec, and considered "normal".
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:34 AM   #97
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Or like me, they tell me it's within spec, and considered "normal".
Hahahahaha. Yeah, the dealer told me at first that the shudder was "normal" and how the car should run.
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:01 PM   #98
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After 200+ miles the car still runs like crap. Shudders worse than it did before.
Hi joefromchicago,

I want to look into some options. I see you mentioned heading back to your dealer, do you have an appointment set up? Please PM me your VIN, mileage, best daytime phone number, full name, and dealer name/location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zehkaiser View Post
This doesn't make me feel better. The shuddering was worse than usual on my drive home from getting the update. I assumed it needed to learn again. I noticed that while shuddering (this only happens in 6th gear) the RPMs will flair about 250. I was barely going up a grade at 55 MPH. I normally drive on that road at that speed and don't have any issues.
Hi zehkaiser,

I recommend setting up another appointment, if you haven't already. Please PM me the info requested above, and I'll check it out.

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Old 09-19-2015, 12:44 AM   #99
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Well after the first 1k miles since this was done and man the car shifts like a dream and is quick as all get out. Still have the occasional hard shift or shudder but I've gotten use to it.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:53 AM   #100
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Im currently at my the dealership for my free state inspection and the service advisor is like so your here for the recall...WHAT RECALL!! tell me it's the transmission and I'm gonna scream where where you 6 month ago when I was complaining...umm yah his came out 3 weeks ago. So the car is going back Oct 6 since they are understaffed as always and I got a family function later in the day so I can't leave it car....Will update this thread after the update
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