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Old 07-21-2019, 04:04 AM   #41
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I've wondered how much of the issue is due to electronic 'overhead' or the extra miniscule amount of time it takes a computer to calculate varied response, and the impact that has on what should be millisecond responses at worst.

I say that after rebuilding a lot of ATX and noticing that it seems that regardless of the money expended there the OEMs have more trouble making them shift in all regimens and conditions as well overall since they went to solenoids as versus simple 100% pure mechanical /hydraulic actions as performed by a 'no solenoid' valve body. The ones with no solenoids have fewer issues or quirks on every type I've worked on.

That alone of course was not going to fix this issue but likely makes it a bit worse. I think Ford was actually onto something with all the talk of 'relearning how to shift' but even they didn't realize the computer needs to relearn shifting literally nearly every time it shifts, it never ever does get it learned enough to work right in every case. Impossible, the variables are simply too much.
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Old 07-21-2019, 06:30 AM   #42
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I have a 2018. Drove for a year and started to get shudder between 1 and 2. Had the weird noise when coming to stops and delays getting back up to speed when in traffic, and it slows and speeds back up.
I switched to 93 octane, and after 4 tanks car was ABSOLUTY PERFECT. We are getting 100 degree temps here right now and the car drives perfect.
My opinion with this is the engine needs more power to run dct, and without it causes trans to shift poorly.
With 93 it holds gears better and no more noises coming to stop. Pickup is DRAMTICALLY improved . It drives as good as any traditional automatic. This is on the 2018 and I cannot speak to older versions, but this was the fix for my car.
My brother in law has a new 2018 also and is starting to have same symptoms and he is going to try 93 also, so we will see if it improves his car too.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:06 AM   #43
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DCT Transmission Article

Okay, so I have to ask: What does running a higher octane fuel have to do with a design flaw? Iím not doubting you, Iím just trying to understand if it actually helps. I have no problem throwing a full tank of 91 in my little 2.0L if you guys actually think it will help? Btw, in in CA, so 93 isnít an option at the pumps.



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Old 07-21-2019, 09:52 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
I'm surprised this isn't more of a busy topic on this forum almost like people are in denial of this which is a huge black eye for Ford and a slap in the face of people that they talked into buying the DCT. I guess hope of a long term fix is gone.

I knew in 2012 there were issues and the two DCTs I test drove just didn't seem right and ended up with the only 5 speed on the lot in the color and options we wanted. Been a great car since.
Thats also what I found after driving a few different ones back in '11....
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:19 AM   #45
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I figured I might take some crap for this, but I am not BSing. This is a information forum and I am just putting out what I think is useful info, and what helped my car.
You have to give it more than just 1 tankful. Each tank gets better. By my 4th tank all symptoms were gone. Drives great.
We are in a heat wave here. 100 degrees. Car drives great. No shudder, hesitation.
For a few extra bucks, and a great running car, I will stick with 93. Reason I tried it is that in the manual, it says for better results or heavy duty use Premium. And the way I use my car it probably does fall under that. I make multiple trips per day, and a lot of city.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:47 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
They didn't correct it because they COULDN'T correct it.

The absolutely dry clutch is much of the issue; you cannot get a dry clutch to release the same way twice. At least not on the microscopic level Ford was trying to do there. Now double the number of discs and tell us how it gets better. Read what the engineer says about the coefficient of friction changing to where it wouldn't stay still.........the problem.

The clutch assembly needed to be wet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
I've wondered how much of the issue is due to electronic 'overhead' or the extra miniscule amount of time it takes a computer to calculate varied response, and the impact that has on what should be millisecond responses at worst.

I say that after rebuilding a lot of ATX and noticing that it seems that regardless of the money expended there the OEMs have more trouble making them shift in all regimens and conditions as well overall since they went to solenoids as versus simple 100% pure mechanical /hydraulic actions as performed by a 'no solenoid' valve body. The ones with no solenoids have fewer issues or quirks on every type I've worked on.

That alone of course was not going to fix this issue but likely makes it a bit worse. I think Ford was actually onto something with all the talk of 'relearning how to shift' but even they didn't realize the computer needs to relearn shifting literally nearly every time it shifts, it never ever does get it learned enough to work right in every case. Impossible, the variables are simply too much.
Yep, poor design is what it came down to. Dry DCTs are not inherently bad; they're cheaper, lighter, and more fuel efficient. They're also quite a bit less durable due to excessive heat and unmitigated friction. It's pretty much guaranteed that they will have rougher shifts than their wet counterpart.

To Ford's credit, they pretty said "We can fix that. Hold my beer." They put serious time and money into (an attempt at) engineering a dry DCT that keeps all the positives above and reduces the negatives. If they had succeeded, I think people would have gotten used to the different/noticeable shifting that comes with any DCT.

But they failed and instead of throwing in the towel and eating the cost of R&D, they went to market with a defective product, gambling on the ability to fix them later. That was their first mistake; the second was failing to recognize the point at which the DPS6 was a lost cause and doubling down, continuing to use a clearly defective transmission. This was all made worse by defective/inadequate materials (input shaft seals, clutch plates, and TCM solder). Mistakes three through twenty include failing to be proactive about addressing the situation after discontinuing the production of the DPS6 in new vehicles and blaming the customer.

I knew what kind of transmission came in the Focus when I bought it. I actively chose the Focus for its DCT. I was excited to see a dry DCT that seemed to deliver. Innovation in the auto industry is slow and incremental; if the DPS6 had worked, it would have been pretty cool with the potential for widespread use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetic View Post
I have a 2018. Drove for a year and started to get shudder between 1 and 2. Had the weird noise when coming to stops and delays getting back up to speed when in traffic, and it slows and speeds back up.
I switched to 93 octane, and after 4 tanks car was ABSOLUTY PERFECT. We are getting 100 degree temps here right now and the car drives perfect.
My opinion with this is the engine needs more power to run dct, and without it causes trans to shift poorly.
With 93 it holds gears better and no more noises coming to stop. Pickup is DRAMTICALLY improved . It drives as good as any traditional automatic. This is on the 2018 and I cannot speak to older versions, but this was the fix for my car.
My brother in law has a new 2018 also and is starting to have same symptoms and he is going to try 93 also, so we will see if it improves his car too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetic View Post
I figured I might take some crap for this, but I am not BSing. This is a information forum and I am just putting out what I think is useful info, and what helped my car.
You have to give it more than just 1 tankful. Each tank gets better. By my 4th tank all symptoms were gone. Drives great.
We are in a heat wave here. 100 degrees. Car drives great. No shudder, hesitation.
For a few extra bucks, and a great running car, I will stick with 93. Reason I tried it is that in the manual, it says for better results or heavy duty use Premium. And the way I use my car it probably does fall under that. I make multiple trips per day, and a lot of city.
I'm not going to give you crap, per se, but I would like to point out that your story is anecdotal (as most of these "fixes" are), and that it doesn't really make sense that running 93 would fix the problems inherent to the DPS6. Don't me wrong, running 93 may in fact improve performance in some situations, but the DPS6 is defective in several ways, some of which can in no way be affected by the octane rating of the fuel you use.

93 is about $0.70-0.80 more per gallon where I live. That's $7-8 more per tank. I guess it can't hurt to try, though giving it 4-5 tanks means I'm paying upwards of $40 just to test something that almost certainly won't make any difference.
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:55 PM   #47
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X2 on that fuel is the cure thing, it is not and no way can the trans know what fuel is in the car.

Butt dyno time and space (as well as mind) warping to the max. 50% of any car problem cure is simply convincing the driver it is true, unfortunately Ford did not hire enough mind control specialists. They should have hired the current president, people seem to believe anything that guy says and a 40% cure would be in effect in one day.
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Last edited by amc49; 07-21-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:11 PM   #48
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Just letting you guys know. It fixed the problem. I think its a combination of engine and trans . My last fill up was exactly $5 more, was .40cents more a gallon.. Coming from a v6 Ranger its still cheap. And is still better than $2000 for a new trans.
You won't know till you try. And just go back to Regular gas after 5 tanks. Cannot hurt.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
X2 on that fuel is the cure thing, it is not and no way can the trans know what fuel is in the car.

Butt dyno time and space (as well as mind) warping to the max. 50% of any car problem cure is simply convincing the driver it is true, unfortunately Ford did not hire enough mind control specialists. They should have hired the current president, people seem to believe anything that guy says and a 40% cure would be in effect in one day.
No the trans does not know what gas is in the car. The engine does.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetic View Post
No the trans does not know what gas is in the car. The engine does.
The problem is the transmission and if octane was a widespread fix this information will spread quickly but I think your "fix" didn't cure the problem as much as it lessened the symptoms for now and likely your issues will return.
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