All things DCT: what it is, why it's still broken in 2018 models, and ways to "fix" it. - Page 2 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Third Generation > MK3 Focus

MK3 Focus The place to chat about general questions, window tinting, exterior body, interior and lighting upgrades for the third generation 2012-Current Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest

Like Tree9Likes
Reply




 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2019, 02:33 PM   #11
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Fan#: 351506
Location: Bay Area, CA
What I Drive: 2014 Focus SE

Posts: 36
Points 41, Level 1
Points: 41, Level: 1 Points: 41, Level: 1 Points: 41, Level: 1
Level Up 82% Completed
Level up: 82% Level up: 82% Level up: 82%
Forum Activity 25%
Activity: 25% Activity: 25% Activity: 25%
FF Reputation: 1 Focus_Hack Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
All things DCT: what it is, why it's still broken in 2018 models, and ways to "fix" it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishBrewer View Post
I think that the big problem with Ford's approach to this issue is that they do not seem to be using an effective feedback loop from the technicians doing the work on these transmissions to the engineers trying to come up with a lasting fix. There were some iterations to the 14M01 repair procedure that resulted in some changes to the TCM programming and presumably better seals but all three of the ones I've had done were using the exact same repair parts and maybe even the same shifting strategy. So this makes me wonder if the technicians are providing information back to the engineers as to whether the clutch was contaminated with oil indicative of a continuing failure of the seals or the clutch being burnt/glazed meaning that there is something wrong with the shifting software...

So, the extended warranty ran out on my DCT and I had the shudder come back (even while running Tom's tune). So, I thought I would try a transmission adaptive relearn using Forscan to see if I could possibly "go it alone" in doing a clutch replacement (which I thought was not possible before I knew Forscan had this capability). To be clear, this was just kind of a trial run as I did not replace any parts, I just performed the relearn. It takes all of about 15 minutes to do if you have everything you need and you've done your homework on the procedure. So, here's the kicker - after going back to the stock tune and doing the relearn but nothing else, the shudder went away and it is still pretty much gone to this day. This leads me to believe that for some of us, the cause for the shudder is that the clutch touch points get out of whack (to use a technical term) over time and this can result in the shudder. I'm waiting to see if I start to experience a significant shudder once again to see of another relearn to fix the problem once again. If so, it seems reasonable that the adaptive learning that these TCMs do to adjust to our driving style is flawed but the good news is that if that is the case, the system could "reset" itself kind of like a computer reboot to basically fix the problem for those experiencing this problem. Because the vehicle could be programmed to do this itself in some manner, this would be virtually a no-cost solution for Ford.

What would be great is for others in this forum who are having shudder issues give this a try and report back on their success or failure. I'm just one data point so this is still pretty anecdotal. However, I am encouraged by the fact that since I did not replace any parts and I experienced a remedy that worked for me, this suggests that a programming based fix (i.e., a tune) is a possibility. We know from Tom that his tune has worked for many and this may just be another approach for those that it hasn't worked for 100%. I think Ford would be wise to look at both aspects and not focus so much on replacing hard parts. They are the only ones with the mechanisms for coming up with a comprehensive solution to the problem.

On our second clutch replacement on our 2014, we received a reflash I think of both the TCM and PCM. (canít recall). The performance of both the motor and transmission softened dramatically. What used to be a responsive throttle and quick shifting car now was completely lethargic. I asked the dealer to flash back and said they are not allowed by policy. We have since had that clutch go out and our third replacement at 80k (fourth clutch if you include factory). I asked if there was a PCM or TCM update available and was told it has the latest. Hate the lack of crispness the car had when we bought her new. Iím sure that latest calibration is intentionally softer as some engineer thinks it will prolong clutch life. I did the relearn two years ago which only resulted in a temporary small improvement really only bring it back to what this latest calibration is. Nowhere close to the original calibration (sorry donít have those values). Anyone else lost performance with the latest? Would have to have been on one of the older calibrations 2014 or earlier?

Last edited by Focus_Hack; 07-26-2019 at 02:36 PM.
Focus_Hack is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-28-2019, 08:20 PM   #12
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Fan#: 89988
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: 2012 Focus SEL Sterling Grey

Posts: 247
Points 1,859, Level 25
Points: 1,859, Level: 25 Points: 1,859, Level: 25 Points: 1,859, Level: 25
Level Up 59% Completed
Level up: 59% Level up: 59% Level up: 59%
Forum Activity 12%
Activity: 12% Activity: 12% Activity: 12%
FF Reputation: 2 vegachicago Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus_Hack View Post
On our second clutch replacement on our 2014, we received a reflash I think of both the TCM and PCM. (canít recall). The performance of both the motor and transmission softened dramatically. What used to be a responsive throttle and quick shifting car now was completely lethargic. I asked the dealer to flash back and said they are not allowed by policy. We have since had that clutch go out and our third replacement at 80k (fourth clutch if you include factory). I asked if there was a PCM or TCM update available and was told it has the latest. Hate the lack of crispness the car had when we bought her new. Iím sure that latest calibration is intentionally softer as some engineer thinks it will prolong clutch life. I did the relearn two years ago which only resulted in a temporary small improvement really only bring it back to what this latest calibration is. Nowhere close to the original calibration (sorry donít have those values). Anyone else lost performance with the latest? Would have to have been on one of the older calibrations 2014 or earlier?
Yep, I agree. Although I've had two replacements I remember thinking how much more responsive the trans used to be. I must say this last one has been OK but the shudder thing did return. I reset the TCM via this crazy youtube video and its been fine. Smooth but lethargic for sure.
vegachicago is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2019, 09:34 AM   #13
__________/\__
 
wavsine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Fan#: 118470
Location: DFW, TX
What I Drive: '16 Camaro RS '13 SE Hatch TOTALED

Posts: 2,118
Points 159,652, Level 100
Points: 159,652, Level: 100 Points: 159,652, Level: 100 Points: 159,652, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 7%
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
FF Reputation: 34 wavsine Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
The majority of DCT owners are on their original clutches, do not experience "shudder", and are very happy with their cars.
I raised an eyebrow on that statement. Where do you get that data from? Only Ford would know how many cars have had clutch pack replacements.
__________________
@wavsine
wavsine is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-29-2019, 10:07 AM   #14
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Fan#: 184985
Location: Asheville, NC
What I Drive: 2014 Focus SE hatchback in Ruby Red

Posts: 313
Points 980, Level 16
Points: 980, Level: 16 Points: 980, Level: 16 Points: 980, Level: 16
Level Up 80% Completed
Level up: 80% Level up: 80% Level up: 80%
Forum Activity 32%
Activity: 32% Activity: 32% Activity: 32%
FF Reputation: 3 rczrider Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavsine View Post
I raised an eyebrow on that statement. Where do you get that data from? Only Ford would know how many cars have had clutch pack replacements.
Well, I posted this what, 8 months ago? Certainly before the Detroit Free Press article (at which point it became painfully obvious how widespread the issue is)

You're not wrong, I didn't/don't know. I made that comment based on the prevalence of online complaints (via various forums) and a couple of conversations with a friend of a friend who's a tech at a larger dealership. Before the FP article, it's the best I could do. I don't really think it's true anymore, though.
rczrider is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2019, 08:21 PM   #15
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Fan#: 389770
Location: San Diego, CA
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus SE

Posts: 44
Points 4, Level 1
Points: 4, Level: 1 Points: 4, Level: 1 Points: 4, Level: 1
Level Up 7% Completed
Level up: 7% Level up: 7% Level up: 7%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 Focusrunner375 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegachicago View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus_Hack View Post
On our second clutch replacement on our 2014, we received a reflash I think of both the TCM and PCM. (can’t recall). The performance of both the motor and transmission softened dramatically. What used to be a responsive throttle and quick shifting car now was completely lethargic. I asked the dealer to flash back and said they are not allowed by policy. We have since had that clutch go out and our third replacement at 80k (fourth clutch if you include factory). I asked if there was a PCM or TCM update available and was told it has the latest. Hate the lack of crispness the car had when we bought her new. I’m sure that latest calibration is intentionally softer as some engineer thinks it will prolong clutch life. I did the relearn two years ago which only resulted in a temporary small improvement really only bring it back to what this latest calibration is. Nowhere close to the original calibration (sorry don’t have those values). Anyone else lost performance with the latest? Would have to have been on one of the older calibrations 2014 or earlier?
Yep, I agree. Although I've had two replacements I remember thinking how much more responsive the trans used to be. I must say this last one has been OK but the shudder thing did return. I reset the TCM via this crazy youtube video and its been fine. Smooth but lethargic for sure.
Press the right pedal down more.

The DCT has different “modes” based on driver input. If you press the throttle down more, the transmission will shift more crisply. If you use less throttle, it will delay the shift to ensure proper rpm matching between gears on acceleration and deceleration.

Last edited by Focusrunner375; 07-29-2019 at 08:23 PM.
Focusrunner375 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2019, 09:50 PM   #16
Focus Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Fan#: 414557
Posts: 7
Points 19, Level 1
Points: 19, Level: 1 Points: 19, Level: 1 Points: 19, Level: 1
Level Up 37% Completed
Level up: 37% Level up: 37% Level up: 37%
Forum Activity 18%
Activity: 18% Activity: 18% Activity: 18%
FF Reputation: 1 cheese_PETE Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I am looking at buying a 2012 Focus Titanium with the DCT 6spd. It has had one trans replacement, should I be worried about the DCT or should I go for it. I will do a test drive. How hard/expensive is a swap to a 5spd manual?
cheese_PETE is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2019, 05:52 AM   #17
Focus Enthusiast
 
RyanLee036's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Fan#: 336401
Location: Hong Kong, Not Listed
What I Drive: 2010 Focus S 5spd (sold May 2019)

Posts: 152
Points 307, Level 6
Points: 307, Level: 6 Points: 307, Level: 6 Points: 307, Level: 6
Level Up 14% Completed
Level up: 14% Level up: 14% Level up: 14%
Forum Activity 16%
Activity: 16% Activity: 16% Activity: 16%
FF Reputation: 2 RyanLee036 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese_PETE View Post
I am looking at buying a 2012 Focus Titanium with the DCT 6spd. It has had one trans replacement, should I be worried about the DCT or should I go for it. I will do a test drive. How hard/expensive is a swap to a 5spd manual?
Please take a read at all the forum threads so far. Read that article from Detroit Free Press. In summary AVOID the DCT. Plenty of cars with automatics you can buy. Or choose the Focus with a 1.0L engine paired with a traditional torque-converter automatic. If you really want to stick with Ford and a sedan as well, get a Fusion.

Last edited by RyanLee036; 07-30-2019 at 05:58 AM.
RyanLee036 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-30-2019, 08:17 AM   #18
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Fan#: 184985
Location: Asheville, NC
What I Drive: 2014 Focus SE hatchback in Ruby Red

Posts: 313
Points 980, Level 16
Points: 980, Level: 16 Points: 980, Level: 16 Points: 980, Level: 16
Level Up 80% Completed
Level up: 80% Level up: 80% Level up: 80%
Forum Activity 32%
Activity: 32% Activity: 32% Activity: 32%
FF Reputation: 3 rczrider Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese_PETE View Post
I am looking at buying a 2012 Focus Titanium with the DCT 6spd. It has had one trans replacement, should I be worried about the DCT or should I go for it. I will do a test drive. How hard/expensive is a swap to a 5spd manual?
I'll echo what was said above: do not buy this car. If it's had one DPS6 clutch pack replacement, it absolutely will need another...and another...and another.

The DPS6 is flawed, end of story. If you're here and can see thread after thread of complaints - and the Detroit Free Press articles - it's not just a gamble to buy a Focus with the DPS6, it's plain stupid.

The few folks on here who have done 5sp swaps haven't shared their cost, but you can count on at least $3500-4000 (and I wouldn't be surprised if it's more). Furthermore, it's a hack of a job at best.
rczrider is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-31-2019, 12:18 PM   #19
Focus Enthusiast
 
SupraGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Fan#: 410021
Location: Edmonton, Canada
What I Drive: 2012 White Focus 5 door Titanium

Posts: 179
Points 381, Level 7
Points: 381, Level: 7 Points: 381, Level: 7 Points: 381, Level: 7
Level Up 62% Completed
Level up: 62% Level up: 62% Level up: 62%
Forum Activity 6%
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
FF Reputation: 1 SupraGuy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
One more voice for the chorus.

Had I read what's here before my purchase, I wouldn't have bought my Focus. Period. My car is a 2012 Titanium, so much like your potential car, but had not (so far as I know) had the DCT replaced. In the first 6 weeks I owned it, it needed the clutches replaced, TCM replaced, clutch forks replaced (NOT covered under 14M01) and the shaft seals replaced. I've also had other issues, and I think that the APIM needs something, too, because there's weirdness with the park sensors and the backup camera, which I haven't had serviced, annoying though it is.

During the first 6 weeks, I put more mileage on service loaners than I put on my car. I drove it to the dealership for service more often than I drove it to the gas station. Edit: And I don't count having it towed to the dealsership as "drove"
__________________
2012 Focus Titanium Hatchback
121,000 km, all stock

1990 Toyota Supra turbo
I think the cams are still stock...
SupraGuy is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-02-2019, 07:19 AM   #20
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Fan#: 295361
Location: new haven, IN
What I Drive: 2012 Red Titanium hatchback

Posts: 27
Points 23, Level 1
Points: 23, Level: 1 Points: 23, Level: 1 Points: 23, Level: 1
Level Up 45% Completed
Level up: 45% Level up: 45% Level up: 45%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 deestop Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Are the cost estimates factual ?
deestop is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
What I Drive
Year, color, and model of your car. Example: 2003 Focus Centennial Edition Sedan
Name
Your real name.
City
State
Country
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.


Copyright 2002-2015 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Mazda CX-3, Audi S3, Mazda MX-5 Miata and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus, Focus ST and Focus RS related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. If you own other makes have a look at Challenger Hellcat Forum, Charger Hellcat Forum, Cadillac ATS-V Forum, Cadillac CTS-V Forum, Lexus RC-F Forum, Lexus GS-F Forum, Mercedes GLA Forum, Mercedes GLE Forum and Volvo XC90 Forum.




 

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1