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Old 11-05-2018, 07:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93Cobra#2771 View Post
No change for me that I can tell. 200 miles so far.
So resetting the adaptive learning didn't even make a difference for you? Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenboy99 View Post
I recently purchased my brothers Focus for my wife and we're having the same issue. Clean up the ground contact today and it drives much better. I'll report back in awhile to see if it changes.
Definitely do! As other have noted, it really ought to be "better" (or "different", at least) right off the bat due to the adaptive learning being reset. Only time will tell if this really does anything; more data, the better!
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:36 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
So resetting the adaptive learning didn't even make a difference for you? Interesting.





Definitely do! As other have noted, it really ought to be "better" (or "different", at least) right off the bat due to the adaptive learning being reset. Only time will tell if this really does anything; more data, the better!


No changes in shuddering. Still doing it. Certainly changed how it shifted until adaptive did its thing.

Iíll report back as it gets more miles on it. Worth a shot since itís free to do other than time.




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Old 11-05-2018, 10:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93Cobra#2771 View Post
No changes in shuddering. Still doing it. Certainly changed how it shifted until adaptive did its thing.

Iíll report back as it gets more miles on it. Worth a shot since itís free to do other than time.
Yeah, I don't suppose it can hurt, though it doesn't sound promising.

Based on what the Ford tech said - and comments discussing the merits of this particular "fix" - I suppose it's also possible that long-term grounding issues could damage the TCM and so the damage has been done even if the grounding is resolved.

It's a bit of a leap to go that far, IMO, but it's possible. Again, I'm not claiming this is the - or even a - problem with the DCT, I just saw some validity in the claim and thought I'd share. The more data we have - the more people who try this - the more we'll know if it actually does anything. I'll feel good once I have a chance to do this with my sister-in-law's Focus, given how bad the shudder is in her car.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:06 AM   #24
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I've got some grease, I'll have a pop at it. Why not?
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:10 AM   #25
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When trying this, Please keep in mind that dielectric grease doesn’t conduct energy. Grease is to be placed after the ground terminal is connected to the frame
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Old 11-05-2018, 01:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
I don't agree. I don't see them spending hundreds of thousands (probably over a million dollars at this point) in hardware and shop time to keep replacing clutch packs. And why is the TCM being replaced? Are you saying it's being worn out by too much feathering? This is a lot of money for Ford the lose just so that the ride is a little smoother. People might complain about the "rough" shifting (and only rough compared to a slushbox), but I assume they complain more about taking their cars in for new clutch packs every 15k miles.

When it comes down to it, neither of us can know and we're just swapping opinions.


Doesn't the Sport mode also shift more like a real manual? Or does it just increase the RPMs at which the shifts take place?


Well, the guy who posted the YouTube video is (or was) a Ford tech. That's about as close to an opinion from Ford that we'll ever get.

What you just said only reinforces my view (at least, so it seems to me): if it's just tuning, you'd think it would be a nut Ford engineers could crack. Maybe Tom is a Einstein-level genius when it comes to the DCT, I don't know. Still, he claims a Ford dealership would buy his tune for each DCT Focus they sold used; seems to me word of his miracle fix should have made it back to Ford by now.

I know Tom takes offense at the very idea that I question his tune; I don't mean any disrespect or insult, I just have a healthy amount of skepticism for something that is only supported by advertisements and (by and large) the opinions of users with low post counts. No guarantee or warranty also makes me skeptical. Truly, I don't mean to imply that Tom is dishonest in any way, even though he has taken it that way several times.
You would be surprised how thick headed upper management can be. My logic though, is if Tom's tune did work... why hasn't Ford adopted it? Slipping clutch bad; quick positive shift good. Right?

The TCM's? That's different. Who knows why those were going bad. Also the transmission seal leaks the early models had. Those were just manufacturing defects or poor engineering. Always a fine line between cost and durability.

Sport mode... I didn't know my 2015 had that! Is that only for certain trim packages? I'll have to take a look at that.

Big difference between a Ford Tech and Ford Management. But I'll take a look at the YT link.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
I don't agree. I don't see them spending hundreds of thousands (probably over a million dollars at this point) in hardware and shop time to keep replacing clutch packs. And why is the TCM being replaced?
The TCM is being replaced because the TCM itself fails. Has nothing to do with the clutch. The TCM has no direct physical connection to the clutch at all. The TCM actually controls the shift actuators that move the shift forks inside the transmission.

I'm just as skeptical of Tom's TCM tune as you are. However, I know tuners local to me and am well aware of what can be achieved with a proper tune.

Quote:
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If the Ford tech is right, it's that there's insufficient contact surface, which (might) be problematic at times of high draw.
As a former Ford electrical specialist and master tech (disclaimer: I no longer work as a Ford technician and my "master" certs expired in July 2018), I can tell you for a fact that the limited ground contact does cause issues for at least SOME Focus and Fiesta owners. While removing the paint from behind the ground cable won't improve clutch life or operation on it's own, it could very well save a few TCMs. I've personally witnessed TCM failures as a result of poor ground contact.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:45 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
The TCM is being replaced because the TCM itself fails. Has nothing to do with the clutch. The TCM has no direct physical connection to the clutch at all. The TCM actually controls the shift actuators that move the shift forks inside the transmission.
Oh, I know. Or, at least, I think I know. I believe the claim in the YT video - and the reasoning behind the mod - is that grounding issues cause damage to the TCM, which in turn causes the transmission to perform poorly.

What's unclear to me is exactly how it damages the clutch. Does a poor/inconsistent signal from the TCM cause the DPS6 to excessively feather during shifts by default (thereby wearing the clutches quickly and prematurely), or does it cause it to think it should shift when it shouldn't (and therefore "shudder"). Both? Neither? Do I have a complete lack of understanding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sykozis View Post
As a former Ford electrical specialist and master tech (disclaimer: I no longer work as a Ford technician and my "master" certs expired in July 2018), I can tell you for a fact that the limited ground contact does cause issues for at least SOME Focus and Fiesta owners. While removing the paint from behind the ground cable won't improve clutch life or operation on it's own, it could very well save a few TCMs. I've personally witnessed TCM failures as a result of poor ground contact.
Ah, experience from the trenches! Thanks for chiming in.

So maybe you could clear this up for me: could a malfunctioning TCM conceivably have any impact on the performance of the DPS6? Because that was my understanding. Maybe the early transmissions did have flawed components that further revisions improved or completely fixed, but fixing one problem doesn't mean the other (TCM electrical issues) won't cause problems on their own.

I will repeat what I've said a couple of times in this thread: it seems way too simple to be the fix. As a Ford tech, you were clearly aware of the electrical issues, so I assume that means Ford as a whole was aware. Or did you only know of the grounding issue and "fix" locally in your shop?
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
Oh, I know. Or, at least, I think I know. I believe the claim in the YT video - and the reasoning behind the mod - is that grounding issues cause damage to the TCM, which in turn causes the transmission to perform poorly.

What's unclear to me is exactly how it damages the clutch. Does a poor/inconsistent signal from the TCM cause the DPS6 to excessively feather during shifts by default (thereby wearing the clutches quickly and prematurely), or does it cause it to think it should shift when it shouldn't (and therefore "shudder"). Both? Neither? Do I have a complete lack of understanding?
Read this article. It's from Australia, but it goes into good detail of the Powershift problems.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/570740/...-and-remedies/
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:49 AM   #30
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Read this article. It's from Australia, but it goes into good detail of the Powershift problems.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/570740/...-and-remedies/
Thanks for the link! To summarize, the article quotes the Ford rep as claiming these were (are?) three distinct issues with the DPS6:
  1. Defective or poorly-designed seals on the gearbox allowed oil to contaminate the clutches, presenting as a "shudder". This is fixed with an updated seal and because the clutches are contaminated, they're replaced at the same time.
  2. Clutches made of a material that was either defective or inadequate for the job as it relates to heat transfer, resulting in "dry shudder". This is what you'd see in hot weather and/or during "urban" driving comprised of stop-and-go traffic, and why they replace the clutches even without oil contamination.
  3. Though technically unrelated to the DPS6 itself, cracks in the actual TCM or its solder causing communication delays (100ms+) that resulted in slow or jerky shifting. A revised TCM resolves this issue.

The Ford rep says that these fixes have been entirely implemented since late 2016 (so late-model 2016 and all 2017 model year Fiestas and Focuses should be "good"). Although this is from Australia, I'm assuming this is the case for Ford NA, as well.

Here's the thing, though. The article is from July 2017, so Ford really hadn't had the "final fix" in place long enough to make any real claims about its effectiveness. The fact that you can find transmission complaints for the 2017 (and complaints for the 2018 are starting to pop up) leads me to believe that they haven't fixed the issue at all.

This idea that the problem with the DPS6 still hasn't been fixed is backed up by the fact that owners of the 2011-2016 Fiestas and Focuses who are on the latest clutch pack revision and with new TCMs (in some cases like mine, where they've been replaced twice for each with the newest rev) still have problems.

As it pertains to this thread, the reasoning the Ford rep gave behind the TCM causing issues with shifting can be applied to the grounding theory, as well. Poor ground contact could cause the TCM to have communication issues, resulting in rough shifting. Even if they replace the TCM with one that isn't prone to cracking, it wouldn't fix the grounding issue (again, if grounding is a problem).

Maybe it's all of the above (seals, clutches, TCM, grounding). Maybe it's that and the PCM/ECU strategy (and so Tom's tune would fix that). As pointed out in the article, it's sometimes hard to know the cause of something when the presentation is the same (shudder/poor shifting). I get that.

Last edited by rczrider; 11-08-2018 at 07:51 AM.
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