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Old 11-02-2018, 07:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Exactly !

Tom
So to be clear, you're saying this will have no positive effect whatsoever after adaptive learning kicks back in?

Personally, I'm not claiming this fixes anything. I have, however, noticed multiple users (reddit comments in the Focus and Fiesta subs, YouTube comments) claim their shudder has not come back after more than a month. I realize that the time required for adaptive learning to complete is dependent on the mileage, but I can't believe they're all folks who drive only a couple of hundred miles in a month. Maybe, though.

I would also like to point out that it's a Ford tech that posted the video, so it's not just some joe schmoe with a socket wrench and a wild idea.

In any case, I (and the community as a whole, I'm sure) would appreciate it if anyone who does this will report back after a month or so, or after 1000 miles (IIRC, that's enough time for the process to have completed). The more data we have, the more we can be confident that it does or does not do anything.

PS - Tom, while I (possibly) have your attention, irrespective of your tune, do you believe utilizing Sport mode in city traffic helps to minimize issues with DCT by increasing shift points and thereby decreasing shifts overall?
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:57 AM   #12
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Adaptive will have its learning done after a few driving cycles. It doesnít take as long as a lot of people think.

Will hopefully be able to drive it some next week (my teenage daughters car) and see if it made any difference.

Saw no signs of bad connectivity, no heat, no arcing, etc.

Iím not expected any change other than the trans relearning shift points for however long.

Firmly believe itís in the tune, and if I still have it after warranty is gone Iíll get toms tune for sure.

Whoever said ďmake it feel like an automatic transĒ needs to be kicked squarely in the privates.


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Old 11-02-2018, 09:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
... I will say here what I said on reddit: I'm skeptical for the same reason I'm skeptical of Tom's tune. If it's really this easy, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that Ford engineers have completely missed it.

...
Concerning the 'Tune' side of your argument, Ford's engineers most likely did NOT miss it. The problem is with the Managers at Ford who wanted the DTC to shift and feel *exactly* like an normal hydraulic automatic. The only way to do that was to have the clutch slip and be feathered waaay more than a manual transmission should be. I'm sure the engineers knew the clutch glazing and shudder issues this would cause... But depending on the culture at Ford they may not have raised those concerns too strongly or if they did they were completely ignored.

I do not have Tom's tune, so Im no expert, but from what Ive read about it the reason it works is that it makes it shift more like a manual transmission. This does result in jerkier shifts, but honestly I like that and think most Ford drivers would as well.

It would be interesting to get Ford's opinion on Tom's tune, or any other 'sporty' shift tune that may be out there. It seems like it would be incredibly easy to add a tune to a software update and have it available as a Sporty mode that you could toggle between in a setting somewhere.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Livens View Post
Concerning the 'Tune' side of your argument, Ford's engineers most likely did NOT miss it. The problem is with the Managers at Ford who wanted the DTC to shift and feel *exactly* like an normal hydraulic automatic. The only way to do that was to have the clutch slip and be feathered waaay more than a manual transmission should be. I'm sure the engineers knew the clutch glazing and shudder issues this would cause... But depending on the culture at Ford they may not have raised those concerns too strongly or if they did they were completely ignored.
I don't agree. I don't see them spending hundreds of thousands (probably over a million dollars at this point) in hardware and shop time to keep replacing clutch packs. And why is the TCM being replaced? Are you saying it's being worn out by too much feathering? This is a lot of money for Ford the lose just so that the ride is a little smoother. People might complain about the "rough" shifting (and only rough compared to a slushbox), but I assume they complain more about taking their cars in for new clutch packs every 15k miles.

When it comes down to it, neither of us can know and we're just swapping opinions.

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Originally Posted by Livens View Post
I do not have Tom's tune, so Im no expert, but from what Ive read about it the reason it works is that it makes it shift more like a manual transmission. This does result in jerkier shifts, but honestly I like that and think most Ford drivers would as well.
Doesn't the Sport mode also shift more like a real manual? Or does it just increase the RPMs at which the shifts take place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livens View Post
It would be interesting to get Ford's opinion on Tom's tune, or any other 'sporty' shift tune that may be out there. It seems like it would be incredibly easy to add a tune to a software update and have it available as a Sporty mode that you could toggle between in a setting somewhere.
Well, the guy who posted the YouTube video is (or was) a Ford tech. That's about as close to an opinion from Ford that we'll ever get.

What you just said only reinforces my view (at least, so it seems to me): if it's just tuning, you'd think it would be a nut Ford engineers could crack. Maybe Tom is a Einstein-level genius when it comes to the DCT, I don't know. Still, he claims a Ford dealership would buy his tune for each DCT Focus they sold used; seems to me word of his miracle fix should have made it back to Ford by now.

I know Tom takes offense at the very idea that I question his tune; I don't mean any disrespect or insult, I just have a healthy amount of skepticism for something that is only supported by advertisements and (by and large) the opinions of users with low post counts. No guarantee or warranty also makes me skeptical. Truly, I don't mean to imply that Tom is dishonest in any way, even though he has taken it that way several times.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rczrider View Post
What you just said only reinforces my view (at least, so it seems to me): if it's just tuning, you'd think it would be a nut Ford engineers could crack. Maybe Tom is a Einstein-level genius when it comes to the DCT, I don't know. Still, he claims a Ford dealership would buy his tune for each DCT Focus they sold used; seems to me word of his miracle fix should have made it back to Ford by now.
Exactly Any aftermarket tune automatically voids any and all factory warranty unless they're "licensed" like Dinan for BMW.

Quote:
I know Tom takes offense at the very idea that I question his tune; I don't mean any disrespect or insult, I just have a healthy amount of skepticism for something that is only supported by advertisements and (by and large) the opinions of users with low post counts. No guarantee or warranty also makes me skeptical. Truly, I don't mean to imply that Tom is dishonest in any way, even though he has taken it that way several times.
No need to be sorry. Questioning something that affects somebody's vehicle in a large way isn't a bad thing at all. A lot of tuners (not pointing fingers, just generally speaking) tend to break out into a "god complex" where they don't feel like they should be questioned. It happened in the Evo world in 2014 and caused a huge split in the community. Almost happened again this summer.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:10 AM   #16
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Folks,
Where is this frame bolt located? I'm assuming it is not the negative battery frame post. That looks nice and clean. I might monkey around with it if I have time. I remember there was something like this supposedly would cure an ABS false error on the Chevy Trailblazer family of SUV's. ......it didn't fix anything for me.
She goes in for the 250 rpm test soon, I need to do it before the 60K point. Very frustrating....fantastic looking car...what were they thinking.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceflow View Post
Folks,

Where is this frame bolt located? I'm assuming it is not the negative battery frame post. That looks nice and clean. I might monkey around with it if I have time. I remember there was something like this supposedly would cure an ABS false error on the Chevy Trailblazer family of SUV's. ......it didn't fix anything for me.

She goes in for the 250 rpm test soon, I need to do it before the 60K point. Very frustrating....fantastic looking car...what were they thinking.


It is the negative battery frame post.


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Old 11-04-2018, 12:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceflow View Post
Folks,
Where is this frame bolt located? I'm assuming it is not the negative battery frame post. That looks nice and clean.
If this is the issue (or just one more thing that compounds the overarching issue), corrosion isn't the problem, so it doesn't matter if it looks clean.

If the Ford tech is right, it's that there's insufficient contact surface, which (might) be problematic at times of high draw.

IIRC, this was a documented issue with the 2011 Fiesta (which obviously came out a year before the first MK3 Focus, and still had a DCT) and Ford replaced the bolts with longer ones. I believe this is part of why the Ford tech advocates for improved grounding contact even with the revised bolts.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is true. Others have claimed reduced or eliminated shudder after sanding off the paint and the argument for doing seems logical to to me, in a general sense. For 10 minutes of your time a couple of bucks for dielectric grease (if you don't already have some), it can't hurt to try.

Last edited by rczrider; 11-04-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:39 PM   #19
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No change for me that I can tell. 200 miles so far.


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Old 11-04-2018, 04:23 PM   #20
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I recently purchased my brothers Focus for my wife and we're having the same issue. Clean up the ground contact today and it drives much better. I'll report back in awhile to see if it changes.
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