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View Poll Results: Factory Lugs suck or is it just me?
Suck 36 72.00%
You're nuts, they're just fine. (or is it just YOUR nuts?) 14 28.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2017, 12:57 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticMynx View Post
xD i dont own any 5 bolt focus's all my focuses are stock 2000-2003 NA with the NA 2006 SAP zx4 as an exception the only 5 bolt i have is my Ford built Jaguar but thats a 5 bolt flat nut


currently that crapalier was a 1995 and has blown its 3 third motor and is long since flattened all thats left is the factory 5 spoke star rims the Pinnacle 7 spoke rims sitting in their basement xD i scrapped it on my nephew after getting sick of putting in new engines and no one bothering to even check the oil every 6 months.

eventually i will be installing a 4 wheel disk system into my 06 but thats in the future im not sure if it will be 4 or 5 bolt..

also im not sure what year your pointing at but i do know for a fact my 2002 wagon, my 2003 Jaguar X-type and my 2006 Ford Focus all are 12mmx1.50's as per the gent i spoke to at Ford Performance where i buy all my Jaguar parts
I dont want get too offtopic but the 2-slow, 2.2l engine is almost bulletproof, very hard to kill even running the oil low..the 2.4L twin cam however will have a spun bearing or throw a rod if run with oil low for too long, haha
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:07 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by FFhb13 View Post
I dont want get too offtopic but the 2-slow, 2.2l engine is almost bulletproof, very hard to kill even running the oil low..the 2.4L twin cam however will have a spun bearing or throw a rod if run with oil low for too long, haha
give me 5 i need to check my desktop i have a pic of the car and motor

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Old 11-10-2017, 02:27 AM   #83
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^^^ Yup thats the earliest version of the LD9 twin cam, 150hp engine, easy to kill if you run the oil low..seen many do it...also seen them get up to 350,000+km if cared for and still have fairly high compression across all cylinders for the age
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:54 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by FFhb13 View Post
^^^ Yup thats the earliest version of the LD9 twin cam, 150hp engine, easy to kill if you run the oil low..seen many do it...also seen them get up to 350,000+km if cared for and still have fairly high compression across all cylinders for the age
THAT was engine number 3 i installed.. that was also taken a few days before i sold it for scrap on him as it sat there for nearly a year and a half and they didnt want to fork another $1500 to drop in another engine
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:14 AM   #85
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^^last offtopic comment I swear.. those engines were becoming so rare around here, mostly from low oil issues, junkyards were charging a premium..$1500? Come on! A buddy of mine started swapping the newer 2000+ Ecotec engines, tons of them as they were in everything, Alero sunfire cavalier, cobalts, etc etc..could only do it to OBDII so 1997+ (1996 was only half OBDII lol)
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:29 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
They may be "fine", particularly if one reduces the torque so as not to exceed the deformation limits of the smaller aluminum area. Your engineering analysis notwithstanding, there is no compelling reason to reduce the lug seating area, particularly when special torque instructions to the rocket scientists at my local tire shop would then be required.

I'll play it safe and go with the bulge cone lugs.
You are aware that the extra conical area of the OEM lug nuts doesn't come in contact with the wheel face, correct?

The area on the flange floats above the wheel, therefore the conical indention in the wheel is the ONLY contact area.

Aftermarket lugs contact that entire area. Therefore the clamping force is identical.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:17 PM   #87
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^^^ Great way of clarifying that.
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:11 PM   #88
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I provided no engineering analysis, if you look at the lugnuts only a certain portion of the conical area makes contact with the wheels and the smaller conical area of aftermarket lugnuts (designed for both aftermarket and oem wheels btw), so the engineering has already been done . . .
On my 2012 Titanium w. handling package the entire surface of the factory lug cone is in contact with the aluminum wheel, this is shown by the contact marks on both the wheel and lug. Reducing this contact area for a given lug torque increases the load on the aluminum. Whether this increased load is within the design margins of the alloy used is not (easily) knowable, and I don't intend to find out experimentally given that I can simply buy the correct, solid lug.

I have a 2001 Mercury Marauder with 20" American Racing wheels that are designed for the small-cone spline drive nuts. The recommended torque is 80ft*lbs, which is less than a factory alloy lug/wheel combination. The wheels are designed for the spline lugs, but they also caution the user not to over-torque the lugs.

So you are probably right that you can use the spline lugs on factory wheels, but I would add you likely need to reduce the torque. I'm not interested in keeping after the tire shop morons on this point for my daily driver car.
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:42 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post
On my 2012 Titanium w. handling package the entire surface of the factory lug cone is in contact with the aluminum wheel, this is shown by the contact marks on both the wheel and lug. Reducing this contact area for a given lug torque increases the load on the aluminum. Whether this increased load is within the design margins of the alloy used is not (easily) knowable, and I don't intend to find out experimentally given that I can simply buy the correct, solid lug.

I have a 2001 Mercury Marauder with 20" American Racing wheels that are designed for the small-cone spline drive nuts. The recommended torque is 80ft*lbs, which is less than a factory alloy lug/wheel combination. The wheels are designed for the spline lugs, but they also caution the user not to over-torque the lugs.

So you are probably right that you can use the spline lugs on factory wheels, but I would add you likely need to reduce the torque. I'm not interested in keeping after the tire shop morons on this point for my daily driver car.
Your wheels only have so much contact area. The conical section of them provides the clamping force. Aftermarket lugs use that entire contact area. Any other contact you are seeing is incidental and does not contribute to clamping force.

How do I now this? I sit down the hall from the wheel and tire guys who design this stuff.
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Old 11-10-2017, 04:43 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by MK3 ST3 View Post
Your wheels only have so much contact area. The conical section of them provides the clamping force. Aftermarket lugs use that entire contact area. Any other contact you are seeing is incidental and does not contribute to clamping force.

How do I now this? I sit down the hall from the wheel and tire guys who design this stuff.
That is too broad a statement. Aftermarket lugs with more or less contact area are available, including spline "tuner" lugs specifically designed (and the subject of this discussion) for smaller lug hole clearance and contact area. The factory Ford wheels are not designed like this, and utilize a larger contact area than the spline lugs.

How do I know this? I took the lugs and wheels off, compared the clearly-visible contact areas of the factory wheel/lug with the smaller splined lugs. The contact area is less than half of OEM using the splined lugs.

However, there are aftermarket lugs available with the same contact area as OEM, so you are correct that the aftermarket offers this product. But not all aftermarket lugs have a large contact area.
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