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Old 04-08-2019, 04:30 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smalls89 View Post
the tcm shifts based on learned patterns, thus, you shouldnt always drive like its stolen and shouldnt always drive it like an old granny.

at the same time there is a dealer tech that makes vids of various repairs, the clutch for the dct being one of them, in the video he describes how they check if the clutch is wet (contaminated with trans fluid indicative of a faulty seal - clutch should be dry) if the clutch is wet it needs to be replaced before anything else, if the clutches are dry they run a adaptive learn reset procedure (several posts here and at forscan about this) then the final step described which he clearly states is not a "ford recommended repair method" is to do just this which he refers to 'clutch scrubbing', the friction caused in doing this wears down any high spots on the clutch caused by the shuddering/previous adaptive learning

tldr, it puts a small amount of wear on the clutches to smooth out the high spots caused by shuddering which is caused by adaptive learning and to 'learn' to apply the clutch better

found the video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msA0p87O2y4
This is what I meant. Thank you!

...

Find a small road outside the city maybe. County road are limited to 55MPH in my area.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:54 AM   #52
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I just got off the phone with Ford customer care & they wonít cover the cost of a new clutch so apparently itís 5yrs or 60k on the DCT & only the TCM is 10yrs, I guess. In any case, we will see how long my clutch holds up because thereís no chance Iíll be giving Ford $2,200 to replace my clutch again.



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Old 04-08-2019, 08:12 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Pokerrun388 View Post
Thereís ZERO chance I would ever give Ford any of my money for their design flaw. This shudder has nothing to do with me but everything to do with a poor design & their inability to do the right thing & take care of their customer. My car is babied & has only 38k miles. I canít wait to get Ford Customer Service & the dealerships service director involved.



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I couldn't agree with you more and said this numerous times here over the years. In the early years everyone was trying very hard to give ford the benefit of the doubt, and there were ford customer svc reps here trying to help everyone. Those days are long gone now
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:26 AM   #54
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I couldn't agree with you more and said this numerous times here over the years. In the early years everyone was trying very hard to give ford the benefit of the doubt, and there were ford customer svc reps here trying to help everyone. Those days are long gone now


In your opinion, what are the long-term effects of shudder on acceleration, if any, as the car ages? Also, does the 2018 Focus DCT shudder? Iím trying to decide what to do with this car, because although Iíd prefer to just keep it, I also donít want to worry about it leaving my stranded somewhere.



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Old 04-08-2019, 08:48 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Pokerrun388 View Post
In your opinion, what are the long-term effects of shudder on acceleration, if any, as the car ages? Also, does the 2018 Focus DCT shudder? I’m trying to decide what to do with this car, because although I’d prefer to just keep it, I also don’t want to worry about it leaving my stranded somewhere.



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In my opinion, the shuddering will wear and break the parts involved far sooner than anything normal. I can't speak for the 2018 but I have watched forum members here each year hoping that the 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 etc etc would be better. Each new model year the hope would start anew.
In my opinion, no company should have ever attempted dry dual clutch transmissions and problems can be found by both Hyundai and Dodge when they did.
I would not advise buying any car that has a dry dual clutch transmission,, regardless of manufacturer.
If I had the time and resources to let focus owners drive my wet clutch 2015 GTI, they would be very angry(er) at what Ford has put them thru.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:14 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Pokerrun388 View Post
Just curious as to how that helps? That is seemingly a great way to put a lot of pressure on the engine & transmission, especially when itís out of warranty? Also, it would be my luck that Iíd get pulled over by a cop doing that.

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I had the clutches in my '15 replaces a year or so ago... and it shudders like crazy again. I had maybe 3 months of great smooth shifting out of the new clutches.

I have tried the clutch scrubbing, as some here and the tech in that video suggest... and it does work, sort of. But the relief is very temporary for me, as the shuddering comes back with a vengeance very quickly.

I live in a city where stop and go freeway rush hour traffic is unavoidable. I think this may be leading to my shuddering, as the transmission slips the clutch repeatedly while driving like that. Ford's problem, not mine afaic :). I just need to convince them to keep replacing my clutches for free :).
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:28 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livens View Post
I had the clutches in my '15 replaces a year or so ago... and it shudders like crazy again. I had maybe 3 months of great smooth shifting out of the new clutches.

I have tried the clutch scrubbing, as some here and the tech in that video suggest... and it does work, sort of. But the relief is very temporary for me, as the shuddering comes back with a vengeance very quickly.

I live in a city where stop and go freeway rush hour traffic is unavoidable. I think this may be leading to my shuddering, as the transmission slips the clutch repeatedly while driving like that. Ford's problem, not mine afaic :). I just need to convince them to keep replacing my clutches for free :).
Livens, first of all I am sorry for what you and many other have gone thru. My comments are out of anger at what Ford has done to so many people and their hard-earned money spent on the Focus.

The concept of clutch scrubbing is not a good if you think about it. For one thing the black boxes keep track of what you do, enabling Ford to point to your clutch scrubbing as the issue.
Anther part of this forum features dozens of posts showing how to properly drive a dry dual clutch - none of which was ever mentioned to prospective owners and its baloney. If you have to completely readjust your driving, something is wrong with the transmission.
Other threads have you removing the snorkel air intake, chasing frayed wires, etc

The simple truth is that if a dual clutch focus was a microwave you had just bought, you would have returned it to the store long ago.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:47 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerrun388 View Post
In your opinion, what are the long-term effects of shudder on acceleration, if any, as the car ages? Also, does the 2018 Focus DCT shudder? Iím trying to decide what to do with this car, because although Iíd prefer to just keep it, I also donít want to worry about it leaving my stranded somewhere.



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I haven't heard complain of shudders in the 2018 but it still early...

Second, if you look in the tread "How many miles MK3", there's a guy out there with over 300 000 miles and it has been shuddering since the early 100k and he says it hasn't got wrost nor improved. Take this with a grain of salt obviously. Of course, it can't be good for the car but it may not be as bad as we think it is.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:54 AM   #59
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I haven't heard complain of shudders in the 2018 but it still early...

Second, if you look in the tread "How many miles MK3", there's a guy out there with over 300 000 miles and it has been shuddering since the early 100k and he says it hasn't got wrost nor improved. Take this with a grain of salt obviously. Of course, it can't be good for the car but it may not be as bad as we think it is.
that is good to know for those stuck with it. I began to think it was an unacceptable issue many years ago when passengers said whats that noise? Which later many other owners mentioned. You work hard for a living, buy a car on a loan, and it has a problem so bad your passengers ask you whats that.

I have owned several other Fords and they were Great. But Ford has treated Focus DCT owners very egregiously. I currently own an Ford F150 that couldn't be a better vehicle
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:54 AM   #60
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in general, a shuddering clutch mostly just inconveniences the driver.

The mechanism itself is usually made to take some shock, and the transmission input shaft likewise is meant to take some shock and torque, since all of the engine torque goes through it.

It will be somewhat harder on the transmission itself, and it will also be harder on the engine bearings, but both should be engineered well enough to take that for an extended amount of time. How you drive it will have a far greater effect on the total longevity of the vehicle.

With a real manual transmission, clutch shudder can be managed with your left foot. A more assertive take-off usually minimizes the problem. Probably if you can convince the TCM to let in the clutch faster, it will do similar. It doesn't need to be a clutch dump.

A higher RPM launch will also help alleviate the problem. Many high-torque puck style clutches like to shudder. My Supra clutch is like that, and doesn't like being engaged at idle or just off idle, it likes to be let in with the engine at least 1200 RPM, at which point it engages smoothly, even for a fairly gentle take-off roll. With the DCT, you don't get direct throttle/clutch control, so higher RPM will mean more abrupt acceleration, but there's probably a sweet spot where it will be better, but not driving like a dumb teenager.

In general, I don't think that I'd worry about a moderate amount of shudder affecting the car's overall lifespan too much, it's much more about whether or not you can deal with it.

In terms of the clutch warranty, I think that mine was replaced because the input shaft seal was under warranty, since at 120,000 km, I would have been over 60,000 miles, but the clutch was apparently wet, so the warranty on the seals replaced the clutch as well. I am unsure on the details of everything, since I didn't have to pay for the service.
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