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Old 05-07-2012, 08:54 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Browningguy View Post
I'm not absolutely convinced that is true. We're 59, and my wife didn't even think about any of the non-TI cars, they just didn't have the gadgets and extras she wanted. I think the SE and SEL are more for young people who can't/won't cough up the money for the TI.

It would be interesting to see the actual demographics on the different models. My guess is buyers over 40 would gravitate to the TI.
I don't know about that. My SEL with MFT, leather, navi wasn't much less than a Ti, and it had nothing to do with price. I would agree if you said that young people wouldn't cough up the money for a $40k sedan, but the ti focus is a cheap car.

I'm 25 and, granted I got D plan, paid within a few hundred of a Ti. It's also just a Focus at the end of the day. It's a nice beater/daily driver.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:56 PM   #92
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I gravitated toward the SE due to the fact the TI had no STICK. Im 38, so im no spring chicken. Just because people are young doesn't mean they won't cough up the $. A lot of us think the SE with the Sport package is the best bang for the buck, save for the ST. As someone stated in the SE thread... All the Good Stuff and NONE of the FAT.
I agree... and honestly, I've owned too many "sports cars". I didn't want a "sport-tuned suspension". I could never drive it with a serious face. It's got like 150hp to the wheels.

I've got the Mustang for that kind of drive.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:03 PM   #93
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Had they had an SE Sport with Leather and a Stick im sure its what I would have gotten it, but since all they had at the dealer was Crapomatics, I had to Order mine
That's not a very nice thing to say about the DCT, now if it was a torque converter slushbox like the 6F35 in the new Fusion or Escape.

I'm in my early to mid 20s still, but I went with the SEL over the SE Sport because the SE Sport was not available in Frosted Glass, and that color preference really narrowed my options if I wanted rear disk brakes, alloy wheels, etc. It helps that the cost differential was within $1-200 for an 300A level SEL with winter package vs a an SE sport DCT.

They didn't sell the SEL in a manual in the U.S., and even if they did the gear ratios just aren't better than my old 1994 Geo Prizm minus the effect of the larger wheels and although I did like the manual 2012 Focus I test drove on the test track the fact was it wasn't going to be as well equipped. If I wanted a hatch in Frosted Glass in a manual SE I couldn't get the sport package due to the charcoal black sport seats, and the SE SFE also forced the DCT but with the frankly ugly wheel covers and lrr continental tires.

I also like that the particular color I ordered is relatively rare, only 5% of all the 2012 Ford Focus models sold since december of last year in the metro detroit area were sold in this color vs 20% for sterling grey, 20% for Tuxedo black, etc, and the interior seat fabric is pretty much only 1%.

I didn't think I would like the medium light stone interior as much when I first saw it in pictures online, but after seeing it in person I really have warmed up to it.

I didn't need leather, or 17" wheels, so I didn't order them, but I understand that its good to have options.


Frosted Glass SEL Hatch on the day I picked her up.



Leather wrapped steering wheel with cruise and sync controls.


The bronze trim around the center console.



Medium light stone SEL cloth seats, with job 2 four-way head restraints.

I've only put around 300 miles on it so far, but I'm still very excited about my first new car.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:05 PM   #94
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Now even you can admit the DCT has been a Crapomatic, and yes they are getting the issues fixed. we will have to see. I would say the Euro Slushbox is a better unit along with the 6sp Man trans.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:25 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by stang74shelby View Post
Now even you can admit the DCT has been a Crapomatic, and yes they are getting the issues fixed. we will have to see. I would say the Euro Slushbox is a better unit along with the 6sp Man trans.
The older ones might have had issues, but so far I can't say I've really noticed anything wrong with the one in the car yet, but mine wasn't built until 4/23/12.

I also never noticed issues with the other DCT equipped Foci that I have driven previously, including the two or three on the test track, and then the rental I had in November which was an ingot silver metallic SF (SE with the bottom of the E broken off the badge) that was built in March and was in service since April 2011, that car had around 17k miles on it when I drove it and it was functioning correctly, no real lethargic shifts or shuddering that I could detect over 180 miles, but then again that had likely been driven harder than your average Focus. Perhaps some of the issues come from driving too gently, or there were more hardware and software issues, but so far I haven't really experienced them directly, although I did ride in one that did seem to exhibit some of the symptoms of shuddering but that seemed to be only between 0-5 mph where the abs might have been pulsing the brakes to try and simulate a normal slushbox, which the gearbox just isn't.

If there was an option for a 6 speed manual with a similar 6th gear ratio to the dct, or perhaps the slightly worse gear ratio like what's featured in with the 1.6L EcoBoost Manual fwd 2013 Fusion, I might have considered it, but the old MTX75 is not any better than the equally old Toyota C50 gearbox as far as gear ratios go, at least as far as the math is concerned. I still enjoy driving a manual, but for example in that well worn rental which still felt as tight as a drum after 17k miles where some other cars are already one wheel in the grave, and it still got around 35.2 mpg even when I wasn't driving especially economically on the expressway doing 80 mph for 50+ miles etc...
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:36 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The older ones might have had issues, but so far I can't say I've really noticed anything wrong with the one in the car yet, but mine wasn't built until 4/23/12.

I also never noticed issues with the other DCT equipped Foci that I have driven previously, including the two or three on the test track, and then the rental I had in November which was an ingot silver metallic SF (SE with the bottom of the E broken off the badge) that was built in March and was in service since April 2011, that car had around 17k miles on it when I drove it and it was functioning correctly, no real lethargic shifts or shuddering that I could detect over 180 miles, but then again that had likely been driven harder than your average Focus. Perhaps some of the issues come from driving too gently, or there were more hardware and software issues, but so far I haven't really experienced them directly, although I did ride in one that did seem to exhibit some of the symptoms of shuddering but that seemed to be only between 0-5 mph where the abs might have been pulsing the brakes to try and simulate a normal slushbox, which the gearbox just isn't.

If there was an option for a 6 speed manual with a similar 6th gear ratio to the dct, or perhaps the slightly worse gear ratio like what's featured in with the 1.6L EcoBoost Manual fwd 2013 Fusion, I might have considered it, but the old MTX75 is not any better than the equally old Toyota C50 gearbox as far as gear ratios go, at least as far as the math is concerned. I still enjoy driving a manual, but for example in that well worn rental which still felt as tight as a drum after 17k miles where some other cars are already one wheel in the grave, and it still got around 35.2 mpg even when I wasn't driving especially economically on the expressway doing 80 mph for 50+ miles etc...
I have gotten a best of 42.9 mpg with my MTX75... and still average 32-34 to and from work, even with my heavy foot
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:01 PM   #97
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I have gotten a best of 42.9 mpg with my MTX75... and still average 32-34 to and from work, even with my heavy foot
That's pretty decent, but I'm guessing you had to go slowly and coast a long time to get anywhere near 42.9 mpg, hell in the old car with the C50 5 speed I got a peak of 45.33 mpg at 55 mph, 40.xx at a fairly steady state 60 mph +/- slowing down a bit on steeper hills, but I digress. If you have to burn fuel in neutral in order to coast longer to avoid the engine braking associated with aggressive deceleration fuel cut off to compensate for spinning at a higher rpm at the same speed with the driveline fully engaged that seems a bit like compensating through technique rather than by a carefully selected gearing choice. But I'll concede that it can be quite fun to change gear, but stop and go traffic is never fun no matter what you're driving.

I don't begrudge anyone for going with the manual, but the car I wanted, equipped the way I wanted wasn't available in a manual, and I don't expect to be insulted for my choice either. Besides I thought the point of this forum was to be a friendly place to discuss the 2012 Ford Focus, and in this particular thread the merits of the SEL vs the Titanium.

I was initially considering an SE sport manual sedan to try and match what I currently had, but decided that I wanted a hatch instead as it was slightly better looking to my mind and a fair bit more practical with the seats folded, but perhaps I'm quite mature for my age as well as responsible, but no matter. All of the 2012 Focus models available so far are a damned sight better than the current generation Corolla, and I also prefer them over the Cruze, although to be fair GM wouldn't let us drive the manual ones two years ago at their proving grounds but only the slushbox 1.4L turbo around an auto cross course and even in their manumatic mode they flopped about on the autocross course and couldn't decide on what gear to be in or how to spool the turbo. Now that's what I call a slush box.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:21 PM   #98
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That's pretty decent, but I'm guessing you had to go slowly and coast a long time to get anywhere near 42.9 mpg, hell in the old car with the C50 5 speed I got a peak of 45.33 mpg at 55 mph, 40.xx at a fairly steady state 60 mph +/- slowing down a bit on steeper hills, but I digress. If you have to burn fuel in neutral in order to coast longer to avoid the engine braking associated with aggressive deceleration fuel cut off to compensate for spinning at a higher rpm at the same speed with the driveline fully engaged that seems a bit like compensating through technique rather than by a carefully selected gearing choice. But I'll concede that it can be quite fun to change gear, but stop and go traffic is never fun no matter what you're driving.

I don't begrudge anyone for going with the manual, but the car I wanted, equipped the way I wanted wasn't available in a manual, and I don't expect to be insulted for my choice either. Besides I thought the point of this forum was to be a friendly place to discuss the 2012 Ford Focus, and in this particular thread the merits of the SEL vs the Titanium.

I was initially considering an SE sport manual sedan to try and match what I currently had, but decided that I wanted a hatch instead as it was slightly better looking to my mind and a fair bit more practical with the seats folded, but perhaps I'm quite mature for my age as well as responsible, but no matter. All of the 2012 Focus models available so far are a damned sight better than the current generation Corolla, and I also prefer them over the Cruze, although to be fair GM wouldn't let us drive the manual ones two years ago at their proving grounds but only the slushbox 1.4L turbo around an auto cross course and even in their manumatic mode they flopped about on the autocross course and couldn't decide on what gear to be in or how to spool the turbo. Now that's what I call a slush box.
Coast a Long time, what do ya think i am ? a hypermiller... I THINK NOT... i was cruising at a steady 45-55 across town... and the other time was running 55 on the hwy for over an hr. so NOT HARDLY.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:37 AM   #99
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Medium light stone SEL cloth seats, with job 2 four-way head restraints.
Holy crap those are humongous head restraints. Far larger than they were...
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #100
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Holy crap those are humongous head restraints. Far larger than they were...
I think that's because they may be common with the Fusion, at least in terms of the ratchet mechanism, as well as the fact that they are better padded than the older ones to offset the fact that the original ones were permanently bent forwards in what was probably the ideal position for catching one's head in a collision at least with a crash dummy into a concrete and steel barrier.

They seem more comfortable than the rental I had back in November to me, but I guess they do seem a little larger than the old ones.
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