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Old 10-23-2019, 01:38 PM   #1
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Brake Shoe Hold-Down Pins keep falling out

Hey all

Man it's been a while since I was on this part of the forum, but here I find myself. I recently bought a $600 ZX3 to use as a rallycross fun car , and am in the process of trying to robustify it in order to make it not cost me 20 hours/month in replacing parts not normally considered consumables.

The most recent issue I'm having is that the brake shoe hold-down pin keeps coming out and getting lost on the roads somewhere, and anyone who knows drum brakes probably understands what issues that can cause. Has anyone run into this issue before, and what did you guys do to solve it?

My current thoughts are to find some sort of threaded fastener I can customize to make it fit and be more secure, but I really want to make sure this isn't indicative of a larger problem in that drum.


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Old 10-23-2019, 07:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1081 View Post
...the brake shoe hold-down pin keeps coming out...
Each shoe has two pins; and you said pin (singular). So, 4 pins and 4 clips per wheel. ->> (( THIS IS VERY WRONG - PLEASE DISREGARD ))

If the pins and the pin clips are the correct type, and properly installed, the pins will not fall out.

Purchase a brake shoe hardware (rebuild) kit (~$15) at your local car part store and try again. I think that kit includes the pins and the clips.

Your idea to install something other than the stock pins and clips should fail. The shoes need to float.

Good luck
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Last edited by Marde; 10-23-2019 at 10:23 PM. Reason: Added text in RED
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:59 PM   #3
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see below
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
Each shoe has two pins; and you said pin (singular). So, 4 pins and 4 clips per wheel.
On both my 2002 wagon and 2005 ZX4 each shoe has ONE pin/clip. So, TWO pins/clips per wheel, FOUR pins/clips per vehicle.

To the OP: Ive driven the above vehicles zillions of miles and never had a brake shoe hold down pin 'just come out' or fail in any way. In fact at brake job time they can be a PITA to release/remove.

Keep in mind I have seen two styles of clips used. A clip with a 'groove':



And a 'forked' clip:


I dont think one is better than the other but the end of the pin is different for each clip type.

What I would do regardless of clip type is to closely examine the pin end to verify that the retaining edges are intact.

Good luck
Paul
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Last edited by Paul1958; 10-23-2019 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:10 PM   #5
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Whoops. The mind is slowly going towards dead. Hope I remember the names of my 2 kids and the 2 dogs tomorrow.

Thank you for the correction Peter, uh Pat, oh wait, Paul?

There are some damn kids on my front yard grass! I gotta go
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
Each shoe has two pins; and you said pin (singular). So, 4 pins and 4 clips per wheel. ->> (( THIS IS VERY WRONG - PLEASE DISREGARD ))

If the pins and the pin clips are the correct type, and properly installed, the pins will not fall out.

Purchase a brake shoe hardware (rebuild) kit (~$15) at your local car part store and try again. I think that kit includes the pins and the clips.

Your idea to install something other than the stock pins and clips should fail. The shoes need to float.

Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1958 View Post
On both my 2002 wagon and 2005 ZX4 each shoe has ONE pin/clip. So, TWO pins/clips per wheel, FOUR pins/clips per vehicle.

To the OP: Ive driven the above vehicles zillions of miles and never had a brake shoe hold down pin 'just come out' or fail in any way. In fact at brake job time they can be a PITA to release/remove.

Keep in mind I have seen two styles of clips used. A clip with a 'groove':

And a 'forked' clip:

I dont think one is better than the other but the end of the pin is different for each clip type.

What I would do regardless of clip type is to closely examine the pin end to verify that the retaining edges are intact.

Good luck
Paul
Thank you both for your responses; what I get from them is that there is something else wrong with that drum system somewhere.

I agree they shouldn't just normally "come out" which is exactly why I was concerned. I put 100k miles on my ZX3 in college and had no issues such as this, but believe it had the "fork-type" pin. I already tried a pin out of a rebuild kit; the rebuild kit I most recently purchased had the "groove-type" pin, and that is Pin #2 to fall out (the first one is the identical type, which was on the car when I bought it). I'll have to try the other pin that came with that rebuild kit, and take Paul's advice and check both the retaining end on the pin and the mating edges on the drum backing plate.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:32 PM   #7
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As said, gotta be something wrong with the parts, those pins do not come out when in good shape and clips the same. The wide slot shown in one pic there clearly shows the pins are intended to move all over the place in normal use.

The clips can be expanses a bit wider to be even tighter but be careful doing it, that is a somewhat hardened part and can be brittle. After that, the only thing guaranteeing the pin never comes loose is attention to detail, i.e., the quality of the work.

Take note that in pics there is a thick shoe and a thin one, shouldn't really make any difference but the thick one goes on the front. Dunno if those pin holes in backing plate are offset for that or not.
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Last edited by amc49; 11-02-2019 at 04:38 PM.
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