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Old 05-31-2018, 07:43 PM   #11
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EDIT: bad info here. See post#13 for the correction.

Here is a picture added using the globe URL method.
http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/39166813.jpg


For some unknown reason this URL method is not working correctly for me at the moment. I will look into this more, -some time later.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:43 PM   #12
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Need some guidance, electrical issues. Multiple codes-20180531_195013.jpg

Need some guidance, electrical issues. Multiple codes-20180531_195036.jpg

Sorry, i dont know why the pictures flipped. They arent flipped on my phone. Anyway, It's a little dirty.

I assume you were referring to the little black box thing on a metal bracket?
What does this do? There is only one wire coming out of it and it's grounded to the strut tower.

Marde,
Since you seem to have a similar issue as far as voltage goes anyway. Have you experienced any codes/issues with the tps or anything to do with the fuel rail, Or does your car run as it normally should?
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post
Here is a picture added using the globe URL method.
http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/39166813.jpg


For some unknown reason this URL method is not working correctly for me at the moment. I will look into this more, -some time later.
I posted a new thread (here) and asked others for help. It turns out I was using the wrong widget, I was using the "insert link" (aka the Globe with a paperclip). The proper widget to use is the "insert image" and is shown with a "yellow square" icon.

A simple case of brain-fart.

@Mnfocuszx3 - I will post back here later tonight.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnfocuszx3 View Post
...I assume you were referring to the little black box thing on a metal bracket?
What does this do? There is only one wire coming out of it and it's grounded to the strut tower.
Yes, that's cool, and normal. But the one-wire version is very unique to our car, and maybe only found on a few other models. I believe that type is never found on 2005+ cars.

It is called many different things. I typically call it the Ignition RF Noise Filter on Thursday or Friday, and other similar names on any other day. The one-wire type is passive (needs no external voltage). The other & typical type is active (needs an external Hot wire) and has two wires. The two-wire type will often cause problems when one wire is broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnfocuszx3 View Post
...Since you seem to have a similar issue as far as voltage goes anyway. Have you experienced any codes/issues with the tps or anything to do with the fuel rail, Or does your car run as it normally should?
First off, I do not have a similar issue AND you have no charging system problem at all, -based on your reports. We both have a charging system that has lower voltage than "normally expected" during warm/hot weather. This is normal based on my findings & research of 2003/04 2.3 engine Foci... at least with the PZEV cars. I also believe this unique charging system behavior extends outside of our car type, and it extends into a larger group of Foci with this smart charging system -verses- the PCM firmware that we have. I have no facts or knowledge about how wide this net falls. I am only positive about my car and my neighbors 2004 2.3 PZEV when I tested that car about 2 years ago. Your car seems to be doing the same (normal) thing.

You asked about my charging system problem, so here is a summary:

The Alt output will sometimes drop below 13V. Only happens when warm/hot outside. This is near, or at, or below battery voltage. This is a real problem.

During this low-voltage situation, the only DTC I get is a P0411, which is a ghost or real fault in the Secondary Air Injection system (SAI) <<SAI is unique to PZEV cars>>. This code turns-on the CEL.

It is not the Alt, or the 3-wire pigtail, or the Alt pigtail connector on the Alt, or the Alt wiring to the PCM. I am 99.9% sure of this.

The PCM Smart Charge System (SCS) is largely influenced by other engine sensors. These sensors can and will change the output voltage of the Alt. This is normal operation.

Here is a list of sensors that effect the PCM vs SCS on my car/your car:

"TPS, ECT, IAT and VSS are among the inputs considered when calculating the voltage set point." <quote from my 2004 Focus wire diagram book>

Note: my SCS voltage only falls into/below battery voltage when my car is at idle, at a stop, and in Drive (auto trans) with my foot on the brake pedal. As soon as I release the brake and roll forward (with gas?) the voltage comes out of the stupid-low zone. My "issue" is to find which one or which combination of two sensors might be influencing my SCS to operate so low during this set of conditions. Lastly, please remember that you do not have this type of problem and I do not want to derail your thread with my SCS problem. I am asking you and others to reply to my SCS problem only after great consideration to your situation, not mine.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:43 AM   #15
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Your engine picture makes me want to reply about two issues.

The red circle is a modification, and is a PCV top-hose breather filter. That is not stock. BTW your lower PCV hose might also be modified... into a catch-can type of system.

The blue circle is a dangerous chafing point. The fuel line might be contacting the metal bracket under the fuel line. This can cut-open your fuel line and start a fire. I had to slightly move this fuel line, because my fuel line was damaged and thankfully not cut thru before I found the problem. I used a zip-tie and some electrical tape to prevent further damage.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:42 PM   #16
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Marde, thanks for explaining you issue. If/when you do find a solution, please post it.

Red circle:
That's my "walmart parking lot at 12am band aid fix".
My car started running really rough, and stalling every now and then. It took a little while to realize the air silencer box thing that sits next to the tb was cracked so it was sucking in air behind the maf. Replaced my intake system with a HPS cai+k&n filter. At some point after that the hard tube that runs from the intake to the valve cover cracked also. I had to improvise. Caped the intake tube and stuck that breather in place until I remember to get some tubing to fix it.
There was a fair amount of oil inside my tb and intake tube. More than I would imagine to be ok.
I doesn't seem to be hurting anything as is.
NOTHING on this car was modified before I picked it up.
The intake is the only thing I have really changed. Aside from sanding and painted the steelies black

Blue circle:
Good catch. I never saw that. I will be dealing with that asap.

My car never had the lower voltage deal going on. It produced 13.8v-14v always. Even with lights, rear def, and blower motor going. Even at idle.
With these replacement alternators is the only time I've had this happen.
I can live with the lower voltage thing if others experience this same conditiom. The tps and fuel rail pressure sensor issues are what I need to fix then.

Does anyone know Why the '05 2.3l use a 130 amp alternator while the '03-'04 2.3ls use the 110 amp alternator? The casings are different, although it looks to be mounted the same.. I'm not sure if the pig tail is different as well though.

Thanks for all this info Marde. It's appreciated.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:45 PM   #17
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After a trip to the salvage yard. I discovered (id guess almost everyone else knew this already) that the 2.0l duratec and 2.3l duratec wiring harnesses are different.
I know of one other 2.3l focus in a scrap yard. I don't know what is left of it though.
Where do the wires go to after the large plug near the battery? To the pcm?
If so, if the two sensors share a wire and go directly to the pcm, could I possibly run a wire from the pcm directly to the harness on top of the engine? Basically bypassing the large harness and plug, just as a test, to see if the problem lies in the large (main?) Harness?
Would their be more signs/codes/issues if it was the pcm itself?

I do have a cheap (red harbor freight) volt meter. Would it be easier/better/possible to test these two sensors with that at all?
Not into electrical problems. But no time like the present to learn.
I just want to eradicate these electrical gremlins and catch back up on other worn out parts.
I don't want to pay a shop $95/hr (that's the best rate I've found so far) just to diagnose the issue or just to be in the same spot as I am now.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:54 PM   #18
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Even the first Focus alts get the charging dropped a bit when hot, my '00 and '02 do it. Why I always check alt output at just warm off a cold start to get a 14.0 or higher number. Later after driving in the heat it can drop. Part of the PCM software.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:13 PM   #19
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Yesterday, After driving on some rough roads I noticed the throttle % gauge in the torque app would off and on read 5% or less but jump up to 18%(normal).
I noticed a few days ago that the issues were only happening in 2nd and 4th gear. 1st, 3rd, 5th, and even reverse had zero issues.
This morning I didnt have a lot of time, i just got curious. so pulled the battery and tray all my issues were caused by the wiring harnesses all resting on my shifter linkage and the top of the transmission. I used one thicker zip tie to secure the harnesses to the metal bracket next to the fuel lines on top of the engine. Put everything back together, left for work, not a single issue.
It looks like maybe some sort of clip use to be holding everything up near the battery but broke off at some point after the clutch was replaced. But I'm not sure.
Has anyone else had a similar issue?
I'm going to secure everytging better when I get more time. At least I found the issue.

Thanks to everyone for the help on any problems I've had.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnfocuszx3 View Post
...Has anyone else had a similar issue?...
Probably, and I can not remember that exact problem. However, that area in general is a problem-child because of dirt & heat & gunk & oil exposure (over time) AND there are those large multi-pin electrical connectors within that area. Gunk + Those connectors can sometimes = Problems. A couple years ago I cleaned-up that wiring and wrapped most of the wiring harnesses/connectors with electrical tape... but only in that spot; I did not do this to the whole engine harness.

I have seen many car engine bays that have the whole engine harness wrapped in custom tape; man that stuff is really cool and inspiring to me. I have some other engine wires-spots that need some TLC. I'm wasting too much time on FF as opposed to improving-working on my Focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnfocuszx3 View Post
...I'm going to secure everytging better when I get more time...
When you do that, make sure you take a few extra minutes to closely inspect for any damage to the wires/wire insulation.

Congrats on your find & fix! -Cheers!
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