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Old 10-24-2019, 05:28 PM   #31
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Now that is a serious overheat!

You guys are working in the dark, I have pulled the latches apart and there is at least one firmly waterproof section walled in that includes the planetary transmission that works plastic swing rockers to hit the limit switches. 3 sections inside and almost impossible to get lube to most of it, you can spray until the end of the earth and not get at some of it as the lube must also traverse straight UP in places, no sitting to soak in will fix that. The 100% sealed section is also located as the middle of the 3 to prevent spray getting to the third high section. Several links that work to drop by gravity and dry grease makes sure they will never work correctly, there are maybe 50 parts inside each latch. A Mabuchi slot car type motor works the planetary.

The inside cable that you work was not going to be easy, I said so. I use mini visegrips to lock hard on and work the inner loose, if you are not clamping that hard to both the inside cable and outside housing you can forget getting it loose. Took me minutes to free it up and door was back to working normal when done. You must grip the outer cable housing hard enough you risk collapsing it to seize up the inner and cable is then junk. Meaning use force but be delicate there, I know, it sucks.

The outside facing tab that the downlink from outer door handle goes to simply flops loose when the latch is locked up, the problem being elsewhere deactivates it, you won't get it open from that end. The problem is at the big double rocker that the inside door unlock tab cable goes to, it attaches to a swing link inside latch that is gravity oriented and sticking it locks the latch up since it is in between any operating location.

Pull a latch apart and all the monkey mortion going on in there clearly shows luck has nothing to do with any of it, you have to get the right part or junk it.

Not trying to dissuade anybody from efforts but wasted efforts I despise most of all. Nothing on the doer, it's just that human waste is so...........wasteful. Why I hang around this site so much.

Work a properly working lock tab on another door and take note of the way it positively clicks or detents at lock or unlock. Then go to the problem one and work it same way. If the messed up one is springy feeling and seems to move in but springs back out on its' own the inner cable IS the issue, the door is in that lock/unlock seizure thing. That springiness issue is clear proof the cable is seized, it springs back since it could not move when you moved the tab. Proper working ones will not be springy like that.

Last edited by amc49; 10-24-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Now that is a serious overheat!

You guys are working in the dark, I have pulled the latches apart and there is at least one firmly waterproof section walled in that includes the planetary transmission that works plastic swing rockers to hit the limit switches. 3 sections inside and almost impossible to get lube to most of it, you can spray until the end of the earth and not get at some of it as the lube must also traverse straight UP in places, no sitting to soak in will fix that. The 100% sealed section is also located as the middle of the 3 to prevent spray getting to the third high section. Several links that work to drop by gravity and dry grease makes sure they will never work correctly, there are maybe 50 parts inside each latch. A Mabuchi slot car type motor works the planetary.

The inside cable that you work was not going to be easy, I said so. I use mini visegrips to lock hard on and work the inner loose, if you are not clamping that hard to both the inside cable and outside housing you can forget getting it loose. Took me minutes to free it up and door was back to working normal when done. You must grip the outer cable housing hard enough you risk collapsing it to seize up the inner and cable is then junk. Meaning use force but be delicate there, I know, it sucks.

The outside facing tab that the downlink from outer door handle goes to simply flops loose when the latch is locked up, the problem being elsewhere deactivates it, you won't get it open from that end. The problem is at the big double rocker that the inside door unlock tab cable goes to, it attaches to a swing link inside latch that is gravity oriented and sticking it locks the latch up since it is in between any operating location.

Pull a latch apart and all the monkey mortion going on in there clearly shows luck has nothing to do with any of it, you have to get the right part or junk it.

Not trying to dissuade anybody from efforts but wasted efforts I despise most of all. Nothing on the doer, it's just that human waste is so...........wasteful. Why I hang around this site so much.

Work a properly working lock tab on another door and take note of the way it positively clicks or detents at lock or unlock. Then go to the problem one and work it same way. If the messed up one is springy feeling and seems to move in but springs back out on its' own the inner cable IS the issue, the door is in that lock/unlock seizure thing. That springiness issue is clear proof the cable is seized, it springs back since it could not move when you moved the tab. Proper working ones will not be springy like that.
Maybe so. Mine unlatched after a good soaking with pb blaster.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:03 PM   #33
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And absolutely nothing against what you did, it's just that there may be some frustration with the results and helpful to know why.

Why we exchange ideas all day long, at least I hope it is. I'm certainly no smarter than anybody else here is and y'all make me think.........a LOT. All trying to cut back on the work and make it more reliable.

I love your postings and keep up the good work. If I sounded overbearing then I'M the one full of crap there.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
And absolutely nothing against what you did, it's just that there may be some frustration with the results and helpful to know why.

Why we exchange ideas all day long, at least I hope it is. I'm certainly no smarter than anybody else here is and y'all make me think.........a LOT. All trying to cut back on the work and make it more reliable.

I love your postings and keep up the good work. If I sounded overbearing then I'M the one full of crap there.
Lol. It's all good. You're knowledge of the latching system is beyond mine as I have never pulled one apart. Living in the south, this failure, is fairly rare. I'm just sharing what worked for me. I didn't mean to sound butthurt.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:33 PM   #35
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Thanks for you lengthy posts :)

I have given up tonight, will try again tomorrow.

But what seems to be happening with mine is not a cable issue (I may be wrong). It is springy when you try to unlock the lock button. But watching it in action it seems that it comes forward on the latch and instead of deactiving the lock it is stopping. I think the large round spring section is seized. As pointed at at 1 minute, in this video:
That is the bit, I think, that locks and unlocks the latch.
If you look at this latch on ebay, you can see the circular spring bit in the middle of the 4th picture.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-F...4AAOSwQFNb2EiM

As I say I could well be wrong, but after watching the tab being pulled up by the inner cable from the handle it comes all the way, but when it is pulled by the lock it comes up in a different direction, which looks like it is trying to activate a separate part of the lock (the round sprung part) but because it is seized it cant go any further.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:19 AM   #36
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You are almost dead on in most of that guesswork. The spring there is the actual fulcrum of the rocker arm there I spoke of but the spring is not making the lock button springy, rather you are feeling the inner cable not go anywhere so it does the only other thing it can do which is to compress the plastic outer cable housing instead, that is the springiness you feel.

In the course of chasing the problem one time I was able to reproduce it with all parts lying out in the open. What happens is that for some reason (warpage maybe due to both actions working at same time) the cable down to the rocker gets twisted off center to one side and then it hangs up the cable body and end on one part of the plastic boss lower down where you cannot see it in the vid. It then is out of the direct line pull on the rocker like it needs to be and then something happens inside the latch assembly itself that compounds on top of that to lock the whole thing up. I know for a fact the rocker moves other parts inside that; if they are in the wrong place they can interfere with the normal pull of the rocker to unlock the latch.

You're close, real close. If you simply fish a screwdriver down in the hole next to cable and could possibly knock the lower cable end off the hangup point you may have it fixed, that is all I did by hand to unlock the messup when I made it happen on purpose. But then I was able to see where the seize up point was. That plus the rocker working inside of latch together are causing the issue I'm thinking. Two actions that interfere with each other.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:29 AM   #37
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If you can expose the side of latch exactly like exactly at the 1:00 mark in that vid then a screwdriver pushed down in there may free things up. Do NOT push on the spring circle, that is actually the axle for the rocker, you actually need to go out further to either end of the rocker to apply more leveraged force to maybe knock the rocker loose. Or if you can see the cable BELOW the snap in point on latch then mess with it lower down too and where it seized up on me. Or make up a hook to pull UP on the rocker end, one end is coming up while the other goes down and vice versa, you may get more force in there that way.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:36 AM   #38
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Go to the linked ebay latch pic and 4th pic again. Look at the white plastic circle end of the rocker to the left of the central spring axle, try to work on that left end. Either up or down (thinking down) there is what I was doing when I messed with the upper end of the cable to make it come loose.

By 4th pic there I mean the actual ebay item for sale on that page, not the 4th pic of 'people who viewed this also viewed...'.
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Last edited by amc49; 10-25-2019 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:25 AM   #39
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Thanks for the 3 posts mate, That makes perfect sense now.

Would putting a new cable on fix the issue then?

Or if I take the cable off could I unlock it by hand by somehow pushing the fulcrum/rocker arm?

Thanks for your time and input, appreciate it.
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Old 10-25-2019, 08:04 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwise68 View Post
Thanks for the 3 posts mate, That makes perfect sense now.

Would putting a new cable on fix the issue then?

Or if I take the cable off could I unlock it by hand by somehow pushing the fulcrum/rocker arm?

Thanks for your time and input, appreciate it.
You can remove the cable from the upper door handle to give yourself some slack. I don't believe the bottom part of the cable is accessible with the latch installed. Once you get the door open remove the offending latch assembly immediately. Best to replace as a unit. Handle reinforcement, latch, and inner handle all go in together. The plastic clip that holds the activator rod is very brittle and not available separately. You can do it.

Last edited by pbfoot; 10-25-2019 at 08:11 AM.
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