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Old 05-24-2019, 07:55 AM   #1
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Washers Behind Slave Cylinder Assembly To Shim It Closer To The PP. Thoughts?

Having trouble with a new clutch setup not disengaging from the FW and wanted to start a different thread to ask if anyone has ever had to shim their slave closer to the PP.

IF I deduce that I need more travel rather than less travel, I thought about adding a washer behing the slave assembly at all 3 mounting locations.

Anyone ever done it?

Anyone think it's a bad idea to try?


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Old 05-24-2019, 09:05 AM   #2
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Before you make dimensional changes to any part of the assembly, try to bleed the system better. It sounds like you have a bubble somewhere. I know they can be a bitch to bleed, but be patient and I think you'll like the results.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pb-foot View Post
Before you make dimensional changes to any part of the assembly, try to bleed the system better. It sounds like you have a bubble somewhere. I know they can be a bitch to bleed, but be patient and I think you'll like the results.
With all the woes about bleeding on FF, it would seem that way to the readers, but, I have great pedal pressure, and the slave moves from beginning of the pedal travel with the pedal.
I've observed with an endoscope that the slave is moving back and forth a proper amount through the full range of the pedal as well, thus, I want to try this seemingly simple solution.

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Last edited by cheap sleeper; 05-24-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 05-24-2019, 12:07 PM   #4
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It sounds like you have done as good a diagnosis of the hydraulic system as possible. Did you change all elements of clutch/PP/FW? Is it aftermarket, with any chance of wrong dimensions/specs on any of the parts?
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Old 05-24-2019, 09:11 PM   #5
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Hey again, PB.
I admit, I haven't measured anything yet because I haven't figured out a way without pulling it all back apart.
And the parts are all made for the car and have the right dimensions, etc..
Parts are:
-BNIB OEM PP with a hardened spring, (will hold triple the oe rating supposedly)
-already had another known working Sachs PP on it from a C.E. FX350 before I bought the new one
-BNIB Clutch Xperts friction disc,
-BNIB OE FW (also had another known good used one on it professionally resurfaced and everything before I bought the new one out of desparation)
-2nd BNIB Orielly's slave
-2nd MC (1st one was the working one in the car, 2nd one is fron Rock Auto)
-2nd OE clutch hose (tried another one just incase)

Same results everytime, after each thing was replaced and trans reinstalled and tested.
So, it's been in and out a few times now.

Bleeds no problem by the correct reverse bleed method.
I get a great pedal as soon as I push a good full tall jug of fluid through from the slave to the reservior.
I even push enough through that half the jug billows out the top and I catch it with another jug placed underneath the reservior.
I have a great pedal pressure immediately upon doing that.

I get in the car, and with the endoscope in the bell housing, I can watch the slave move with any little action of the pedal, from the very top of the pedal even, exactly as it should behave.
It keeps moving forward the further I push the pedal down, just as I figure it should.

Clutch never releases.

Sorry for the novel.





Quote:
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It sounds like you have done as good a diagnosis of the hydraulic system as possible. Did you change all elements of clutch/PP/FW? Is it aftermarket, with any chance of wrong dimensions/specs on any of the parts?
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:50 AM   #6
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Nothing wrong with the idea in and of itself but is the body there plastic? The concern there is the tabs get shimmed and then load pushes back on the central body to break the tabs off, made worse as the tabs I see on Rock Auto ones are notched at the sides to break super easy.

I myself would be using washers but in same thickness as a much bigger single one that goes under the bigger center body to support it, maybe even one big enough you simply notch the one part at the bolt holes to have the center and much of each tab supported. depends on the raw materials you find.

I used to build up the clutch levers on old school 4 speeds all the time to get the exact clutch action we needed. Those had a single like 3/4" OD stand that you added washers underneath to bring it forward to work the clutch deeper.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:04 AM   #7
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I do have that concern about the tabs.
The slave is metal, so the tabs 'in theory' may hold up better than a plastic would.

If I do it, I'll use washers with a large enough OD to support the tabs' OD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Nothing wrong with the idea in and of itself but is the body there plastic? The concern there is the tabs get shimmed and then load pushes back on the central body to break the tabs off, made worse as the tabs I see on Rock Auto ones are notched at the sides to break super easy.

I myself would be using washers but in same thickness as a much bigger single one that goes under the bigger center body to support it, maybe even one big enough you simply notch the one part at the bolt holes to have the center and much of each tab supported. depends on the raw materials you find.

I used to build up the clutch levers on old school 4 speeds all the time to get the exact clutch action we needed. Those had a single like 3/4" OD stand that you added washers underneath to bring it forward to work the clutch deeper.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:50 AM   #8
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Do you know if the old PP works correctly with the other new parts? Just thinking about ways to not have to apply a workaround solution, maybe the hardened springs don't allow the correct amount of travel for the clutch and/or slave. Are all the components matched and from the same manufacturer?
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Old 05-27-2019, 03:25 PM   #9
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Bear in mind that the slave if moved forward MUST have at least a small amount of freeplay at pedal back all the way off or it wears out the bearing like lightning.

You really should be measuring as the other way too much risks even more, the clutch partly slipping.

There will be only one very small correct window to be in.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:43 AM   #10
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The old one worked when I took the car apart due to the engine blowing up.
When I put everything back together, I had the FW professionally resurfaced and reused my entire clutch set up that was already working when the engine blew.

I had the same symptoms with the original working clutch components reinstalled that I have now with all new components:
No air in the line, full travel of the slave with the pedal beginning from the very top of the pedal.
Obviously good pedal pressure.
I can watch the slave push in and out with the pedal.
It's action isn't notchy and it continues moving forward until the pedal reaches the floor. (No dead pedal area anywhere)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pb-foot View Post
Do you know if the old PP works correctly with the other new parts? Just thinking about ways to not have to apply a workaround solution, maybe the hardened springs don't allow the correct amount of travel for the clutch and/or slave. Are all the components matched and from the same manufacturer?
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