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Old 05-25-2019, 10:10 AM   #21
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Thing is, our cars idle great the instant we blip them back to life with the clutch or the throttle, then they hold idle perfectly, for any amount of time, until you go accelerating again.
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Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Has anybody tried to bump open the TB a little bit more like I said a long time ago? That alone will modify the way the engine drops to idle at letting off the throttle.

On the fumey exhaust thing I believe somebody said the downstream O2 was dead for years, may have killed or clogged the converter.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:26 PM   #22
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I normally scream to never touch them too but there can be a reason to do so carefully. If the throttle then begins to hang you back the screw back closer to where you had it.

The engine drops and its' own weight (inertia) drags it down to die if the throttle is not open enough. The actual die point AND THE RATE OF RPM DROP before the die depend on the TB setting. The die point is supposed to be caught by the IAC but the IACs do NOT work as instantly as most think, they take a second or so to kick in the full move and by then the engine can die. It gets to be a problem on older engines and I have absolutely cured dies on mine when say the a/c cuts in by doing that.

When you adjust the butterfly open a bit more you are doing much of the IACs' work by having the airgap already open slightly more, the engine then does not die.

Try it, if you create other issues then just put it back where it was.

Take careful note of how much you move the butterfly, if too much the idle hangs start but putting it right back stops them again.

There is a certain small amount you can adjust there, one way to do it might be to disconnect the IAC at warm idle to adjust TB then, instead of going to the usual 700-750, go to 850 and then plug IAC back up. That should be within the IAC range to still not get 'can't control idle range' codes.

The IAC opens more with a tight TB airgap and closes off some with a wider one, the latter condition is better to have when you have engine falling to die issues. BOTH ways give the exact same 'perfect' idle speeds with engine at pure idle, give THAT some thought.

One day I was simply paying attention to idle bumps and drops and picked up on the fact that there was an electrical 'noise' (like a stepper motor or similar) that occurred a fractional second before the idle actually went up, the a/c clutch was already on (I have a light for that) and I wondered what the noise was. I became convinced you can hear the IAC switch on and then the second later it actually moves to change the idle speed, that second between is your die window. How I came up with bumping the TB butterfly to cure problems, and it worked in my case. No more problems.

The IACs do not work as instantly as we think, they work slower so PCM can stop them on the move at the correct rpm. Why that little die window can be there.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
I normally scream to never touch them too but there can be a reason to do so carefully. If the throttle then begins to hang you back the screw back closer to where you had it.

The engine drops and its' own weight (inertia) drags it down to die if the throttle is not open enough. The actual die point AND THE RATE OF RPM DROP before the die depend on the TB setting. The die point is supposed to be caught by the IAC but the IACs do NOT work as instantly as most think, they take a second or so to kick in the full move and by then the engine can die. It gets to be a problem on older engines and I have absolutely cured dies on mine when say the a/c cuts in by doing that.

When you adjust the butterfly open a bit more you are doing much of the IACs' work by having the airgap already open slightly more, the engine then does not die.

Try it, if you create other issues then just put it back where it was.

Take careful note of how much you move the butterfly, if too much the idle hangs start but putting it right back stops them again.

There is a certain small amount you can adjust there, one way to do it might be to disconnect the IAC at warm idle to adjust TB then, instead of going to the usual 700-750, go to 850 and then plug IAC back up. That should be within the IAC range to still not get 'can't control idle range' codes.

The IAC opens more with a tight TB airgap and closes off some with a wider one, the latter condition is better to have when you have engine falling to die issues. BOTH ways give the exact same 'perfect' idle speeds with engine at pure idle, give THAT some thought.

One day I was simply paying attention to idle bumps and drops and picked up on the fact that there was an electrical 'noise' (like a stepper motor or similar) that occurred a fractional second before the idle actually went up, the a/c clutch was already on (I have a light for that) and I wondered what the noise was. I became convinced you can hear the IAC switch on and then the second later it actually moves to change the idle speed, that second between is your die window. How I came up with bumping the TB butterfly to cure problems, and it worked in my case. No more problems.

The IACs do not work as instantly as we think, they work slower so PCM can stop them on the move at the correct rpm. Why that little die window can be there.
I'll give it a go.

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Old 06-04-2019, 06:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
I normally scream to never touch them too but there can be a reason to do so carefully. If the throttle then begins to hang you back the screw back closer to where you had it.

The engine drops and its' own weight (inertia) drags it down to die if the throttle is not open enough. The actual die point AND THE RATE OF RPM DROP before the die depend on the TB setting. The die point is supposed to be caught by the IAC but the IACs do NOT work as instantly as most think, they take a second or so to kick in the full move and by then the engine can die. It gets to be a problem on older engines and I have absolutely cured dies on mine when say the a/c cuts in by doing that.

When you adjust the butterfly open a bit more you are doing much of the IACs' work by having the airgap already open slightly more, the engine then does not die.

Try it, if you create other issues then just put it back where it was.

Take careful note of how much you move the butterfly, if too much the idle hangs start but putting it right back stops them again.

There is a certain small amount you can adjust there, one way to do it might be to disconnect the IAC at warm idle to adjust TB then, instead of going to the usual 700-750, go to 850 and then plug IAC back up. That should be within the IAC range to still not get 'can't control idle range' codes.

The IAC opens more with a tight TB airgap and closes off some with a wider one, the latter condition is better to have when you have engine falling to die issues. BOTH ways give the exact same 'perfect' idle speeds with engine at pure idle, give THAT some thought.

One day I was simply paying attention to idle bumps and drops and picked up on the fact that there was an electrical 'noise' (like a stepper motor or similar) that occurred a fractional second before the idle actually went up, the a/c clutch was already on (I have a light for that) and I wondered what the noise was. I became convinced you can hear the IAC switch on and then the second later it actually moves to change the idle speed, that second between is your die window. How I came up with bumping the TB butterfly to cure problems, and it worked in my case. No more problems.

The IACs do not work as instantly as we think, they work slower so PCM can stop them on the move at the correct rpm. Why that little die window can be there.
Thanks for the suggestion, tried this method and it fixed it. my car still stalls occasionally but that is due to having a cracked intake manifold. i ended up just deleting the iac. with it deleted it is much more fun to drive as the rpm do not hang anymore. plus better gas mileage!
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Old 06-05-2019, 03:04 AM   #25
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Good luck passing emissions like that.
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Old 06-05-2019, 03:04 PM   #26
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Good luck passing emissions like that.
I do not have emission testing in my county
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:05 PM   #27
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Same here. No emissions anywhere in state of FL.
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I do not have emission testing in my county
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:32 PM   #28
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Lucky boys.
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:09 PM   #29
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Update:
I have been too busy to mess with the car, so, I just leave it in gear all the way down to idle, then push the clutch in.
Sucks to have to drive that way, but, I adjusted.
Will hopefully get to it this week and will update as I discover anything.

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Old 07-13-2019, 02:17 PM   #30
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Update: So, I discovered that, if I never rev it above 3k rpms, it will not die when I push in the clutch.
And it is fine when it is cold and only starts stalling when clutch is pushed in once it hits either closed loop, or, just gets hot enough to cause the problem.
I rechecked every vacuum hose, I smelled the vacuum hose for the FRPS and it has no fuel smell to it.
I disconnected each connector while the car was running and, also pulled each hose while engine was running.

The two observations that were notable were:
My PCV hose running to the intake manifold didn't feel like it was pushing any air out.
It is a brand new hose and I cleaned out the pcv valve thoroughly before testing.

The other is, the car does nothing different when I dosconnect the harness on the module on the passenger side of the firewall that is cylindrical on top.
I think that is the evap purge module?
Anyway, maybe the engine would do nothing different with thay unplugged.
Anything else I disconnected immediately had an ill effect on the engine.

I DO get a cat insufficient flow code, amd have for years, but, the sensors read correctly on the torque app when running.
The upstream oscillates well, the down stream reports a steady higher voltage.

I do get a strange smell when I dog on the car and then come to a stop, as if echaust is billowing under the car, but I have already fixed the exhaust leaks underneath, so, I assume it might be the cat at the flanges leaking under heavy load/ high rpm.

I may put a new cat in since this one is at 274,000 miles. Haha
But, the reason I didn't want to blame the cat was because the car pulls fine through the rpm range, hits 109mph no problem, and the sensors are reading seemingly as they should.
Fuel trims are perfect 0s.

Another notable thing is, the engine breaks up above 6,250rpm when I am stomping on it.


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