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-   -   Is My Brand New Orielly's Slave Defective? (https://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/general-technical-chat/806025-my-brand-new-oriellys-slave-defective.html)

cheap sleeper 08-27-2018 10:05 PM

Is My Brand New Orielly's Slave Defective?
 
I've done numerous clutch MC and slave installs and bleeds on my MK1s, but this one is looking like my brand spanking new slave is junk.

I have zero air bubbles anywhere.

I did pump and dump, then pulled the bottom MC line and shoved it back and pinned it when the fluid level reached appropriate max level.

Those two methods work every single time for me with no bench bleed of either component, and within minutes I have a clutch.

I tried those two methods over and over again with no new air bubbles, and, I have what feels like almost a perfect pedal resistance.

If you were to get in the car and push the clutch, you would be sold that the clutch is bled, until you noticed that it won't disengage from the engine.

I then did the 'correct' reverse bleed, no new bubbles, pedalthe same.

I tried all 3 methods numerous times.

Pedal feels great, but, no clutch at all.

SO, I had a new MC sitting in the box here to put in my SVT eventually, so, I swapped it in hoping that 'somehow' my MC must've failed just from sitting inactive for two years.

Easily got it bled to the exact same pedal I already had.

Still no clutch.

The lines are fine.

There is no fluid loss anywhere, except, possibly from the slave, which, I can't confirm either way because I have spilled some down on trans while doing the bleeding over and over and over again.

Clutch was working perfectly when the engine blew 2 years ago.

Pads on clutch still look very good, lots of life left.

Flywheel looks fine.

Motor is cinched all the way around to the bell housing perfectly and bolts are all tight.
^Yes, I really did check that rather than assuming.

Sorry for the novel.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has had a problem with these metal ones from Orielly's.

I can't fcking believe I'm going to have to pull this whole thing back apart because of a junk new slave.

Gi_Jo_Nathan 08-27-2018 10:43 PM

It's highly possible. Most parts from autoparts stores aren't really new. They are rebuilt and it's highly possible to get a bad one. I've had it happen with numerous parts, including a slave cylinder from Autozone.

amc49 08-28-2018 02:54 AM

But then a lot of people bring back hydraulic stuff with absolutely nothing wrong with it other than they were too incompetent to bleed things correctly.

I saw more of that by far when I worked there. With many people it's just luck they finally get them working once you throw skills out the window, then they blame endless 'bad parts' that were not bad. I know because when bored I would clean some of that stuff up and at resell the parts worked fine.

Some of them ARE bad though, at teardown you would find a seal rolled backwards or torn to flaw it. What happens too when it stays empty due to lack of skills and the owner insists on getting mad to work it again and again while dry inside. The fluid is the seal lubricant there.

I'd be careful of saying 'numerous' parts, that kind of identifies one there.

amc49 08-28-2018 02:57 AM

On the OP, if 2 MCs have now been used then likely the slave has messed up. All the abrasive dust flying around in there it's amazing they last as long as they do.

Figure out a way to deadhead the MC (block the output 100%) and work it then, if you don't get hydrolock then it is leaking.

cheap sleeper 08-28-2018 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amc49 (Post 11328879)
On the OP, if 2 MCs have now been used then likely the slave has messed up. All the abrasive dust flying around in there it's amazing they last as long as they do.

Figure out a way to deadhead the MC (block the output 100%) and work it then, if you don't get hydrolock then it is leaking.

Whatup AMC.
I didn't write that I have thrown "numerous" parts at this particular problem.
I wrote "numerous" referring to how many times I have done the bleeding process on this car today and 1st gens generally.
I also said "numerous" referring to how many times I have swapped slaves and MCs into 1st gens.

I merely swapped the MC because, well, I have a strong pedal, no air bubbles, no problem with the line, and a brand new slave, so, of course I'm going to blame the 8 year old MC next.

I would feel pretty dumb if I pulled the whole trans to swap out a brand new part while the 8 year MC was the problem all along.

I have a strong pedal and no air anywhere, even after a reverse bleed pushing an entire liter bottle through and out the top.

I've had a strong pedal (as I should) within seconds of bleeding each time, it just won't actuate the clutch enough.

Really, I know that's what it has to be.

Both MCs give me the exact same good pedal resistance.

I just wanted to know how many others have had a faulty brand new slave.

felixthecat 08-28-2018 10:18 AM

Like amc49 mentioned some are bad to start with.....I've seen used ones also from the DC.....

amc49 08-28-2018 11:58 PM

Just for clarity, no personal insult intended or implied there, more like what we had to work with in the parts business.

Like I say, figure out some way to block off the output of the MC and then fill, bleed and work it, if the part is good you will hit absolute hydrolock, telling you that part is good.

zz0rr 08-29-2018 11:07 AM

I recently went through this. I thought i was bleeding correctly, and I was. Both master cylinders bled the same and I got good pedal feel (taking the spring off to verify). In a good pedal there might be 1/2" - 1" of dead travel at the top, then it will push nicely to the bottom and come back on its own to the dead band without the spring attached. My problem turned out to be in the clutch, and the system was bled fine. I knew I had good pedal feel but I still replaced the master cylinder because there's so much superstition about clutch bleeding in focus circles, plus it's 1-2 hours instead of 4-8 hours of work.

For reference, because I tried all fashionable bleeding procedures, here's what worked best:

1: factory service manual method: push fluid in through the slave bleed port, from the bottom, until no bubbles appear in the reservoir. very quick. I used a goldenrod oil can big enough to complete the job without restarting, maybe 12oz or bigger
2: loop a long hose from the slave bleed port and put the exit of the hose into the reservoir, under the fluid level, then pump the pedal until no bubbles go past in the hose. This worked about as well as #1 and was dead easy and didn't require anything other than good fitting hose
3: classic pump and hold method (worked fine but tedious)
4: vacuum bleeder on slave port: this worked ok but did leave some bubbles that were revealed by following with other methods. I would rate 1-3 as better
5: "bench bleeding" or taking off the intermediate sections of hose and "bleeding" them one at a time: this simply didn't help, didn't work. You will always have air pockets left over so you haven't moved the ball down the field much with these methods. Maybe it works for some people, but one of methods 1-3 should work fine

what I'll be doing from now on: start with #1, and follow up with #2. #1 works very fast and #2 seems to get out every last tiny bubble that might remain in the system so it's a good follow up. Took all of ten minutes on my second attempt.

zz0rr 08-29-2018 11:11 AM

btw, the luk brand master, LUK LMC370, is the best part here, and is all of $17 on rockauto. Get that one if you want to avoid superstition about the master working or not

cheap sleeper 08-29-2018 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz0rr (Post 11329181)
I recently went through this. I thought i was bleeding correctly, and I was. Both master cylinders bled the same and I got good pedal feel (taking the spring off to verify). In a good pedal there might be 1/2" - 1" of dead travel at the top, then it will push nicely to the bottom and come back on its own to the dead band without the spring attached. My problem turned out to be in the clutch, and the system was bled fine. I knew I had good pedal feel but I still replaced the master cylinder because there's so much superstition about clutch bleeding in focus circles, plus it's 1-2 hours instead of 4-8 hours of work.

For reference, because I tried all fashionable bleeding procedures, here's what worked best:

1: factory service manual method: push fluid in through the slave bleed port, from the bottom, until no bubbles appear in the reservoir. very quick. I used a goldenrod oil can big enough to complete the job without restarting, maybe 12oz or bigger
2: loop a long hose from the slave bleed port and put the exit of the hose into the reservoir, under the fluid level, then pump the pedal until no bubbles go past in the hose. This worked about as well as #1 and was dead easy and didn't require anything other than good fitting hose
3: classic pump and hold method (worked fine but tedious)
4: vacuum bleeder on slave port: this worked ok but did leave some bubbles that were revealed by following with other methods. I would rate 1-3 as better
5: "bench bleeding" or taking off the intermediate sections of hose and "bleeding" them one at a time: this simply didn't help, didn't work. You will always have air pockets left over so you haven't moved the ball down the field much with these methods. Maybe it works for some people, but one of methods 1-3 should work fine

what I'll be doing from now on: start with #1, and follow up with #2. #1 works very fast and #2 seems to get out every last tiny bubble that might remain in the system so it's a good follow up. Took all of ten minutes on my second attempt.

Yes. I did (and regularly do) 1-3 and it always works within a couple of minutes.

Same is the case this time.

I had all of the air out just from #1, then I did 2 and 3 out of desparation, even though I had no bubbles.

Clutch is definitely bled.

Clutch worked perfect when the engine blew and has a ton of life left on the pads (they still look new), so, I'm stuck blaming the new slave.

Good quick write up you posted there for any who haven't done it on their own yet. 👍👍
That info is sometimes hard for folks to find since it's kind of buried nowadays.


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